[TotemWood Tommy]

The reason I have shifted to primarily power, is that after years of trying to keep up with my peers? It was not working. There are indeed medical reasons for this and I did my best. 'nuf said about that part.

What I do, I do not consider cheating, anymore than using my cane is cheating to help me get along when with others.

If I could reliably get about without my cane? I WOULD. Frankly the same is true for me and rotary/power tools. That's just ME however.

I STILL use a knife/chisel at times, though rarely today compared to a year ago. My work has started to surpass what I was able to do after eight years of knife/chisel work. The learning and practice I did with knife/chisel I believe has helped in that regard and always suggest that one starts with knife/chisel-shifting to power only if/when clearly needed. Just as I have done.

A couple reasons. Power is "powerfully more expensive." Or at least can be. While resale value of the equipment is nil compared to even knife/chisels.

This is a big issue if one is disabled certainly, wood grows on trees not money.

In general it is far less "portable" than a knife/chisels. Keep out of puddles and the rain! What about the cords? How many carvers will be using power so how many outlets will already be used? It can be less "social." Dust is a sincere issue that must be addressed. etc...

Cheating? For a certain subset of the carving community it absolutely is NOT. For others? <shrug> Except on rare occaisions? Only you can determine it I feel, ONLY you. It's none of my biz.

Still? STARTING out carving? I feel that it is best to at least start out with knife/chisels. Then only gradually move into power when the clear need presents its self. It has nothing to do with "cheating," but from "learning" and how to learn...

Just some thoughts...

Best,

Tommy...

[jillsy]

ooo! oooo! I wanna answer this one too!

The more I carve with my knives and gouges, the more it seems, I also wanna learn how to use my Dremel and bandsaw! The way I see it, the more I master, the better I'll become.

Typically, I'll use my Dremel to just help with sanding, but lately, BY ACCIDENT, I've learned how using a Dremel can help me carve robes and drapery in ways I never imagined! I can't even explain how I do it, but when I use a Dremel after carving out the basic robes, I can make them look much better - like they're flowing more.

I wouldn't consider this cheating at all. To me, it's another skill I'm learning thru a different means. By lots of practice, and thru trial and error, I'm teaching myself a whole new way to enhance a carving. And it all happened by accident. That accident is turning into a new skill that I'm thrilled about!

I don't feel the Dremel is doing it for me. There are specific ways I need to hold the piece, look at the piece, and figure out the way it would work. Just like a knife or gouge can't carve a piece on their own, A Dremel can't either. It's the carver who makes it happen.

Wow, in just a year of being here, my confidence has really grown. What a terrific site to be part of!

Jillsy

[susieq]

Hi Jillsy,
Ok girl, once and for all, get rid of the guilt. You are evolving and you should just go with it....where ever it takes you. I never started out to be a power carver. I was proud of how well I used my gouges. But once you try power and see the things you can do with it.....like flowing robes.....you become hooked. It's not like going to the dark side or anything. You have found that you have soooooo much more control over what you are doing when you use power....God help you if you get a micromotor, you WILL be doomed. LOL!

I do agree that because I started with gouges and chisels and learned the basics of carving that way first, I am a better carver with power. You will be too. People who go straight to power are missing out on something, that's for sure.

I am excited for you because you are excited. If this works for you, do it.
(micromotors are like holding an artists brush to creat...is that next for you?)

[Tom H]

Two and one half years ago I started carving with a knife. For the prior fifeteen years I used a Dremel and AMC rotary tool to "make" pairs of animals for Noah's Arks that I made. These Noahs arks took on several characteristics. Most were for kids to play with, so the animals did not have to have much detail. However, some were for the serious collector and required more detail. These Noah's Arks were mainly sold through gift shops and a gallery or two. The shops and gallery would include the phrase "hand carved" on the piece. A few years back I began getting calls from the shops and galleries saying that some customers were questionning the "hand carved" signs. I told them that I used various power tools to shape the animals. They changed to signd to "hand made". Up until that time I never gave it much thought. So I started asking questions within the carving community. My answers were veried, but an awful lot did not really think that power carvings should be labeled "hand carved". So, I went out and bought a knife and the rest of the stuff so I could qualify as a "carver". But, I now know that it's all carving. I may mainly use the knife now, but when I need to use the power it is also used. And I don't care what some call it, I call it carving, and i don't think it's cheating.

Tom H

[jillsy]

That's what I say Tom!

Ok, what the heck is a Micromotor?! Someone please explain....or at least sum up! Oh forget it, I can't wait for an answer.....google here I come!

[TotemWood Tommy]

Tom H. You make a point, and btw-somewhere in most all my carvings I wind up using a knife or a chisel for at least one cut or a few.

-Tommy...

[billbohon]

If you were carving on a big block of tupelo you would need power lots of it......power on bass wood not as pretty as hand carved.......bill

[Ashbys]

Well Lets see ,

Carve .. verb .. means to remove material . You carve a turkey , a stick , a tree a rock , a peice of steel .

Carving .. verb.. the act of removing material

A carving .. the finished product

A power carving .. a carving produced using a motor

A hand carving .. a product produced with the implied action of a motorless act.

A machine carving.. a power carving

Now is producing a carving with a dremel a cheat ? NO there is no such thing. The only reason that the term hand carving is used has nothing to do with the carving. Because basically a carving is a carving is a carving .

The finished product has nothing to do with the process used. It is either a good carving or its not.

But hand carving is used to imply to the public it is a one of a kind motorless carving to increase the value of the carving. The bigger question is why ? The answer is simple although not well liked. Because if you tell Joe public that it was done with a dremel tool , the value of the piece is reduced, because to them it becomes machine done.

Of course this is only my opinion , and that of the people that I sell to. So if I am asked about a piece , they are chiseled , powered, chainsawed, or lasered . So I am not sitting in court trying to argue my way out of a law suit. Because if I was sitting in front of a jury , I would not want to bet , that they would consider that using a motor would be hand carving.

[Schwingding]

Does (Saint) Roy Underhill think that powered table saw users are cheaters? I doubt it. Would the early timber cutters have thought using a gas powered Sthil was cheating? Heck no, they'd have loved them.

I used to get in this sort of discussion with turners. As a carver and a turner, I could easily produce a round bowl with only carving tools that would fool any woodturner into thinking it was done on a lathe. Yet turners are very possessive about their forums, restricting the postings to only work that has at least seen a lathe at some point. Heck, many of them don't even resemble lathe work by the time they're done. Anyway, I digress.

If power carving tools were available "back then" as they are today, of course they'd have used them.

I don't hear the hand tool guys giving each other grief for using lumber that was harvested and surfaced using power tools. I get a kick out of the fact that they'll post hand tool built furniture that had seen a powered jointer and thickness planer at some point.

There is still some work that only hand held, non powered carving tools can accomplish. If your work demands that kind of thing, you'll be forced to learn hand tool techniques.

I find it hard to produce a straight, round stem on a spoon using power carving tools, so instead I shape them initially with a spokeshave. Easier, more accurate, and no dust. But I do the rest with a Foredom.

A few valuable lessons can be better learned by using hand tools first. How to orient your carving tool properly for grain direction is probably the best example that comes to mind. Improperly attacking a surface with a powerful rotary tool can be dangerous, and a newbie can easily forget that cutting with the grain is important. I occasionally still think I can sneak an uphill cut with a carbide cutter until it catches and digs out a chunk forcing an unintended redesign, and I know better!
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My work http://flickr.com/photos/10005466@N07/sets/

[sgtusmc]

Nate,

My vote is learn to use both, I use a mallet and chisel, I use hand chisels, and I use power, if you use the hand chisel long enough you'll wind up with a trigger finger, if you use power long enough you'll wind up with dust in your lungs, one of the handiest tools Ive come across is something I found in my kitchen, we have a coffee cup filled with pencils in there I found a curved tool that my wife used on ceramics, it does the best V grove of anything I ever found, have no idea what its called or where to buy one.

DO IT BY HAND, DO IT BY POWER, BUT WHAT EVER YOU DO, DO IT.

SEMPER FI. BOB