[RC Woodworks]

Sorry for the trouble this topic has caused. I withdrawl it and thanks I really enjoyed all the carvings I have seen. Please do not e-mail me or respond. I feel bad enough now.

Rick

[Kenny_S]

I don't think so, but then, I am not a purest either.

[Ashbys]

Lots of carvers use routers.

I know many relief carvers that use router to rough out thier patterns. Router are used to make blanks and if you take it small enough you can almost get it to a finished product.

Basically a router is nothing more than a motor with a cutting bit. Same as a dremel just different sized.

Now I will take that a step further, most professionals, will not hesitate to use a router or anyother tool to get a job done, but they sell the finished work as a piece or a part of the project.

There is a level which changes things. And how they are considered. If you use a cnc router and take the project to a finished piece are you going to make one? Or 30000. The cost of making a single piece on a cnc router can be almost as expensive as doing one by hand if it is a one time design , developed from ground zero.

If you purchase a pattern that is completly set up your time and cost is realitively cheap. Is it the same as a hand carving , NO. Should it have the value of a hand carving ...NO . Is it a carving ..Yes.

The point I guess , is not if it a carving , but was it designed to be valued as a hand carving? Or a mass manufactured item or a one of a kind orginial piece. So the question is not if it is a carving , but how should it be valued as a carving.

Just my opinion
Ash

[Ashbys]

Rick,

Nice work.

I did not mean to imply that they do not have value, if anything without such work the world would give up the many things we have grown accustom to having. The first being affordable art.

But if you have not seen them take a look at these threads,

Squbrigg logo

Carved doors

New tools to help with sign

These were signs and doors as well, I wish I had more time , there is a thread of a carver doing doors , one doing signs that are amazing I think I need a favorite list for my favorite list

Ash

[Doug Ridley]

As far as I'm concerned, there is no such thing as cheating if you are talking about ways to remove unwanted wood., up to and including dynamite. Borglum used dynamite to remove excess rock while carving the presidents in S. Dakota. Those faces are considered carved by everyone. The end result is what counts. My opinion only.
Doug

[squbrigg]

Using a routor to relieve background isn't cheating, in that use it is just another tool. But ... machine carving is just that.... machine carving! Duplicators, these new Compucarves, to me , that isn't carving.

I'm certainly not a purist, I use whatever tool I can to achieve the results I want, but setting up a block of wood on a machine and pushing an "on" button just goes way beyond my idea of carving. Or using a routor to completely carve out a sign, by following a template! Sorry, but I don't see the relationship to carving.

That is not to say that there isn't a place for it, and I'm sure many folks will be delighted with the results. I have seen some awesome signs done in that manner. But it isn't something I would be interested in.

Bob

[BobD]

It's funny...

I'm trying to get a Compucarver here at the office to review, and in talking with the company, it seems that some of the biggest customers are scroll-sawyers!

But I'll let you know what I find out when I get one here at the office. I saw your other post, Rick, and I'm very intrigued!

Bob

[AlArchie]

Seems to me that there is going to be a lot of debate about those Compucarvers, and most of it will probably be against calling the results "carving". And for the most part I agree with that position as the patterns and such are all pre-programmed.

There is another aspect to this, though. It is possible to sit down at the computer and draft your own patterns, and as a trained CADD operator I know that this design process can be as much art as it is technical ability. It is also possible to duplicate both 2D and 3D models with extra hardware and software. But creating artistic renderings on CADD software is much akin to sketching out your patterns on paper, but requires the addition of a vast understanding of the technicalities of working solid models into 3D model space in or "on" the computer.

These "carvings" are created in an entirely new medium and are only transferred to wood through the use of the CNC router/carver/ or whatever you want to call it. The carvings are actually created in the mind and the CNC becomes your hands.

Very much like the paintings that are created using the computer, or the manipulation of photographs for artistic ends.

I don't think this will ever replace "hand carving" but to deny the creative process because we may use new tools seems quite counterproductive.

UH-OH, now I did it!

Al

[AlArchie]

Just got a real letter (not an email one) from Bob Weaver with a newspaper article on an expansion of the P. Graham Dunn facility in Dalton, Ohio. This facility is a totally computerized manufacturing plant that makes wooden laser engravings, large commercial CNC carvings for doors, altars, cabinetry, etc.

These products are turned out en-masse, but I would venture to say the craftsmen who design and complete these works are true artists. Artists of a different breed perhaps, but still amazing workers.

If you ever get a chance to stop by their facility I would highly recommend it. This is down in Wayne County, Ohio in the heart of Amish Country, and in the surrounding towns you will find a plethora of craftsmen and artisans doing wood carving, wood sculpture, woodwork of all kinds, basket making, quilting, and even buggy making. Most everywhere you can find a shop to look at their production process be it hand or machine. Here there seems to be a blending of the old ways and the new with no sign of conflict between the two. From mallet and chisle to CNC; all beautiful work!

And if you are insistant on doing only hand work, check out the Lehman Hardware in Kidron........best durn store around for hand tools of all kinds, and books on just about every hand made trade.

Al

[squbrigg]

Perhaps it is the group that you are asking the question of? If you ask the same question of a group of router users or Compucarve users, I'm sure the answers would be different. The majority of us here are wood carvers, not manufacturers.

Bob