[Lynn O. Doughty]

I've taken a couple of comments from XSailer's Carver's Gallery post and added them here as I think this might have possibilities for a really interesting and valuable idea.


I said: I think it would be great if we could have a new thread titled "Critic's Corner" where a carver could offer a piece of his work for open and honest answers about how others really feel about it. I would love to see a comment that starts out "That's a real nice attempt, but........" Just like handing in our papers in school to be graded those rules apply in learning how to carve.

One thing I always do is, when reading a comment I might think a little questionable, I go to the threads or gallery of that person making the comment to see if I think they're qualified to make such an observation. We have lots of opinions and different types of carvings on this forum and while one carver might be an expert or socalled "master" in a certain area they might not know squat about another.



XSailer said: I really like your idea of a Critics Corner. If you venture in “Critics Corner” area you need to be ready for HONEST AND FRANK opinions. I would think you would want to break it up somehow into different levels of expertise though. If you don't the participants would be the very finest of carvers and although I'm sure they would appreciate the praise - YOU DON'T NEED IT!

I will respectfully disagree with XSailer on the different levels thought. I think we should open the critics up to everyone from every level. Perception is really important and from my standpoint I want to know what anyone thinks about my work as that is the audience that I sell to. I love it when someone comes by my table, looks at one of my carvings, looks up at me and smiles. They have just made a valid critique and I have just gotten the feedback I need to continue what I'm doing. I don't know who they are or what their background is and they might have never heard of me. But for the briefest moment we understood each other and agreed. Then there are the others....the ones who just look and walk on by. I don't appreciate it but I accept it as part of the game we play. Now if those people actually took the time to tell me what they think that would make it all the more worthwhile to me. It would tell me what I'm doing right or wrong or maybe how to improve how I do a certain thing.

So how about it WCI?
.

[BobD]

I think the concept has merit, Lynn, but I don't have time to set it up right now. I'd only roll it out after I had taken the time to write up specific guidelines for people posting to the thread. I want the people asking for critiques and the critics to know exactly what to expect when they post there.

I'm working on three issues right now (two special issues, and the upcoming issue of SSWC; the last issue of WCI is ready to go out the door).

Let me get my head above water, and I'll see what I can do.

Bob

[xsailer]

Lynn,
I think you misunderstood or I didn't didn't do a good job of explaining the "different levels" thought. I don't mean to leave anyone out of the Critics Corner. I just want provide different levels that all interested carvers may enter their work for an honest appraisal. For talking purposes levels could be beginner, intermediate, expert or some other means of determining capability. This could be a sticky wicket and get out of control. But I think it is well worth pursuing.
You and all other, for lack of a better word, masters are entirely right wanting/needing customer feed back. We all need that, honest appraisal.

[xsailer]

BobD,
As the saying goes, Rome wasn't built overnight. The suggestions here would obviously take time and should/could involve the forum at large suggestions. After all, there are at todays count, only 7,752 of us.

[Irish]

Originally Posted by Lynn O. Doughty

One thing I always do is, when reading a comment I might think a little questionable, I go to the threads or gallery of that person making the comment to see if I think they're qualified to make such an observation. We have lots of opinions and different types of carvings on this forum and while one carver might be an expert or socalled "master" in a certain area they might not know squat about another.

So ... ???? .... we are now judging the judges (critics) that we have asked to judge our work??? So who determines who is qualified to judge who is qualified to comment as a critic ???

How are you going to judge those judges as history proves that often the best art critics are not necessarily the best artists. Is everyone judged as judges and the judged by their execution skills only with no consideration to experience, diversity and variety of general wood carving knowledge ????

Is this one those "Who guards us against those who guard us" snyarios ???? Or is this really a "if I don't like what you say I am disqualifying you for the reason that 'well, I don't like your carvings either' " ?????

Sounds like a lot of judgments are being pasted around without any principles, applications or techniques ... what ever happens to sharing ideas, experience and skill tips around this place ???

Very confused here ?

Susan

[BrandantR]

I just want to second the motion. I've been carving for a little over a year now and have learned a whole lot from what others have posted. I have posted a few of my carvings and asked for honest critiques, but I mostly get the whole... nice carving ... like the paint ... types of responses. Even though it makes me feel good, what I, and many of us striving for improvement, need are honest and open opinions. In other words, if you like it, what do you like about it so I can do it again. If you hate it, what do you hate about it so I can avoid it in the future. This sort of response is much more valuable than the ... nice carving ... response. Just my two cents worth.

[xsailer]

Irish,
A respectful question............WHAT?

[xsailer]

It must be noted if you enter the Crtitics Corner you must be prepared for and accept the feed back and the feed back should be a tactful and respectful feedback. There are always a few though that don't appreciate the art of being tactful and their comments would show them to be what they are, as in other threads. Entering the Crititics Corner may not be for the thin skinned.

Note, I updated these remarks from another similiar thread where this conversation started, I think

[GaryMc]

Hm,
I would also like to see a good critique section also,but in the past these things must have led to some contention. I posted my new Indian in the last few days and as always I ask for comments and or critiques. I had some nice comments but no real Critiques, except one that I recieved in a private message. He was sensitive to the fact that not all carvers take critique well. In my case that's how I have learned to correct things about my carvings and I much appreciated it. Critiques are a very valid way to help out carvers striving to become better at thier ART. But anyone who wants to be critiqued must put thier feelings on hold and take the critique in the vien it was ment. And at the same time the one doing the critiquing needs to be sensitive to the experiance of the carver and make the crit. positive and hellpful to the carver.
One more thing, while I appreciated the private Crit. of my work, because it was private, the readers of this board missed an oppertunity to learn from the Crit. also.
My two cents.
GaryMc

[Lynn O. Doughty]

You bet I judge the judges. And the more judicial they are the more I judge them! People are more than welcome to comment on my work but they must be aware that they will have to stand behind their opinions as if I feel they're wrong I will question them. As for art critics not being artists but feeling that they are the best ones to judge artists work I only have one word.....BUNK! Besides, as 99.9 if not 100 percent of the members of this forum are woodcarvers I don't think we have to worry about being judged by a bunch who might not have any real knowledge of just what goes into making a piece.

Gary hit one of the most important points of having such a place: "One more thing, while I appreciated the private Crit. of my work, because it was private, the readers of this board missed an oppertunity to learn from the Crit. also."

I don't see where any confusion would come into play as all the other topics would continue to be available to those who wish to use them. As for guidelines for posting, etc., I think we're all adult enough to respect the views and feeling of others without the need for rules to guide our thoughts. If someone posts an offensive comment we still have the midnight censors to always seem to show up to mysteriously remove the offending comment without a word of explanation.