[Lynn O. Doughty]

It always amazes me when someone suggests something that might be positive that it can be totally taken out of context to what it's original purpose was. It almost appears that some out there just can't understand that there are those of us who actually appreciate the comments or critiques of other carvers. I'm almost sorry now that I even brought the subject up.

[AlArchie]

Lynn, you and I seem to agree on so many issues, yet seem to vary widely on our approach to answering querries.

I think your original premise was excellent, then in a short follow-up, you stated:

"One thing I always do is, when reading a comment I might think a little questionable, I go to the threads or gallery of that person making the comment to see if I think they're qualified to make such an observation. We have lots of opinions and different types of carvings on this forum and while one carver might be an expert or socalled "master" in a certain area they might not know squat about another. "

If you follow through on someone else's critique of a piece with this line of thinking, and you don't think this individual "knows squat", don't you see where the opening of argumenitive conterstatements is going to take place?

Just adding your own critique would seem quite adequate, but I can definitely see you challenging another critique by someone you felt not properly quallified to make his own critique based on your having gone over his or her postings or sites. You are not quite as subtle in some of your comments as you may think.

I hope this response doesn't come off wrong, as I intended it only as a "positive critique" itself, so to speak, but you somehow seem to always shoot yourself in the foot.

It was a great suggestion, in my opinion!


Al

[Lynn O. Doughty]

Not in the least Al. When I see a comment by someone I'm not that familiar with I always go to see what they've done just out of curiosity. Some are much better carvers than I would ever be. But the purpose of my suggestion was not to critique the critiquers, someone else can do that. I would only offer any suggestions from my area of expertise to the carver who asks. I would never even consider commenting on a bird carving although I've done quite a few bird carvings. I certainly wouldn't critic some of the beautiful Santa carvings posted here as I don't carve Santas. Same goes for any other type of carving other than caricatures. In the caricature field I think I might have something to offer if someone asks me. So like I said I might know or at least think I know a lot about one area but I don't know "squat" about Santas.

Anyone can comment on anything if they want to and from being on this forum for quite a while I've seen a lot do just that. I'm even probably more guilty than most. But I don't think I've ever told someone how to do something in an area where I haven't had at least a little experience.

[Kenny_S]

Not really Lynn, I think it would be positive for many. I for one do value people's input on my carvings. However, Like I said before the members on this board have the capability to critique any carving that is posted now. But do we or you use it. Mostly NO. That is all I am saying.
I have no problem with a catagory that is title Critiqued Carvings. May even use it myself. I for one need improvement and think that I have but the road is long and I am not there yet. Even if I get there, there will be yet a longer road to travel in my carving venture.

Nuff said by me, Y'll, that be southern talk for all of you, can hash it out.
Toodles noodles
CIAO
G'Day
See ya in the funny papers

[Jim Arnold]

A critic's corner...OK, but I think its a 'slippery slope' issue that will lead to no good.. I have to agree with Susan's first post in this thread about focussing on 'sharing ideas, experience, and tips'. We all have our mentors here, people whose opinion we trust, people whose work we admire, I've always been able to ask them for an honest opinion, and I know to listen to them because I DO respect their abilities. If you start soliciting critiques from 'everybody', even visitor's walking in off the street to visit this site, then there has to be guidelines like Bob mentioned, and even with the guidelines it will open up a can of worms, which is great for fishing, but not very helpful in woodcarving.

I belong to a lot of sites where you HAVE to critique each other's work, and its always a source of conflict in their forums and their site, and this is after years of practising (critiques) with very detailed and specified guidelines too.

WCI is way different! Look at how someone here can post any question on any of the wide ranges of fields and topics represented here, and then get 'bombared' with positive, useful, tips and suggestions, especially newcomers! I like to read the comments from newbies that ask questions here (and by newbies, I mean people new to the site, not necessarily new to wood). They are always overwhemled by the support shown by members here and that fosters an immediate kinship. That doesn't happen anywhere else, BUT here!

First will come the, "tell me what you like, and tell me what you didn't like" stuff, then judging guidelines, then a rating system, THEN you'll really have a butt-kissing club going like ALL of the other sites out there! Everybody's equal here....sure there are different 'levels' of expertise, but I think the reason we're here is the same for everybody, to learn a little, find answers to problems, show others what you do, see what others are doing, and mostly to share in the fellowship that woodcarving is. Lynn hit the nail on the head in his first post, there's no better review than somebody saying, "I'll take that", lol. I want the 'others' to keep walking by so somebody else has room to take a peek.

PLEASE don't change the spirit and soul of this place!

Jim

[Lynn O. Doughty]

Unfortunately, life is not always 100 percent positive. If, when we were still small, our parents only patted us on the back and told us how wonderful and great we were I don't think we would have turned into the wonderful and great people we are now. When a person is trying to learn a craft or anything for that matter a little negative criticism can result in a positive result.

I will agree that when someone says "Whats wrong with this?" almost everyone will venture an opinion. A review of the posts and resulting comments on this forum show this clearly. While it's sad that some might use such an opportunity to respond too harshly thats what we have moderators for. A number of us here on the forum have experienced this forum of editorial control and while we might not always agree with it we accept it for the priviledge of being part of this forum.

A lot of carvers, me included, ask for comments and suggestions while others just post the photo. If they ask and I feel I have something to add that might help or improve their piece I'll say something. If they don't ask I won't even though I might like to. The same applies to me as my most recent piece testifies to when a fellow carver pointed out a glaring mistake that I, the so-called king of detail, got completely wrong. Thanks to his input I was able to quickly correct the offense with the result being a much better looking piece. This is the beauty of having others review your work.....they might just know a little more about something that you do!!

[Ashbys]

I will agree with that Lynn .
Your response on the horse on Napoleon , has sent me though a lot of research. Not only to find out about the section of the horses head but also to location of the bit. I think you will approve of the changes when I post updates of it.
And I hope you always feel you can respond and give me your opinions, I do value them you have a lot to offer. We will not always agrree but I do try to keep an open mind.

Garry

[Lynn O. Doughty]

Thanks Garry. I certainly don't know all there is about horses teeth but I certainly know where Boomer's are. As I have to put my fingers in his mouth each time I bit him up it didn't take long for me to find out where not to put them. ALso, it has always amazed me that in the evolution of the horse a space was made in the mouth for the proper placement of a controlling device.

[mdallensr]

I agree with Lynn, Garry and other supporters of the Critic's Corner concept. We have few children on this message board, and those youngsters who do post at times have asked for honest criticism or opinions of their work. It's better to be honest and helpful, in a respectful way, than to to sugarcoat an answer or ignore their request for help. For adults, even beginning carvers, honesty is still the best policy when someone asks a question. We are all capable of ignoring a response we don't like, just as we hit the remote when we don't like a TV show. The arguments start when someone takes exception to a comment and posts a reply. Even that is OK for many of us, since it brings out some of the best opinions and comments. If all we did was pat each other on the back and have the same opinions on woodcarving, we'd be out of things to say in a week. IMHO, of course. Respectfully submitted. Mike

[RonB]

I agree with Lynn, I have seen negative comments by people, but by tracing their posts,they usually reveal their true nature. I don't think we need a bunch of rules, to direct our thinking, thick skin maybe,and like one post put it, "Dull knives and the ability to use em."