[doris]

i was trying to follow marks explanations how to carve a leaf, the s-shapes, and the open-book-shape. yesterday i liked my leaf, and so i waxed it, but today i am not sure it is right, to me it is not so pleasing, but i dont know why ... please do say your opinion on this leaf. good or bad, and what could make it better...

[Irish]

Hi Doris,

Your shape and texture to your leaf is outstanding. Oak leaves have those delightful little planes inside the veins and you have really captured that.

If it were me I would add a little undercutting along the edge of the leaf. Right now you have a wonderfully realistic top to it but along the sides it is very thick looking. This might be what is bothering your eye.

Try using your bench knife or chisel to cut a slight angle along the edge of the leaf so that it slants under the leaf. This will thin the outer edges and also create some dark shadow.

Susan

OH! But, please, don't lose that lovely texturing.

[Thor]

Doris,
I think you've come leaps and bounds. The helpful thread that Mark took the time to do has me carving leaves as well. You are way ahead of me with the pleasing look we're both going for I think. Your curves look natural, and I like the hook at the end of the leaf.
Thor

[mark yundt]

Hi Doris,,yes , have come a long way,and you have done a very good job!You remind me of myself,,I think I have a piece finished,,am happy it's done,, but the more I look at it, especially the next day,, I see things I want to change.That's why I don't keep my honing supplies next to me when I'm carving.It forces me to leave the carving for a bit,,and when I come back,,and sometimes on my way back to the bench , I see things that I didn't see before the whole time it was in front of me.That few second break gives your eye a chance to "refocus" and see things anew. I think that's what has happened here,,you had a chance to refocus and saw it anew the next day.
You can undercut the leaf,,and it may help,,but knowing you have an artistic eye I think you instinctively know that isn't it.It's a linear thing.What I did was print out your picture,,and just traced it to see the lines more clearly and basic.This shows you only form and line.Here , on just a drawing, you don't need undercuts to see what is really happening,no distractions,,just line. I tend to think what is bothering you is the heavyness of the leaf,, it doesn't have the lightness that a realistic leaf would have. Undercuts won't help lightness if the top surface still looks a bit heavy.In the second sketch (B) I used your same profile and lightened the main stem, and redirected the secondary veins to a more forward thrust,in more graceful sweeps.Your "S" lines are there,,just a bit severe ,, stretch them as I did and the leaf takes on a whole new character I think. Also the stem ( the thicker part at least) stops basically where the leaf starts, and the secondary ones are just off shoots from the main vein.I also included "C" where I stayed within your profile,,but pulled back some of the scalloped edges a bit,, giving the leaf yet more lightness. The actual oak leaf pic , though lifeless and dead,shows basically what I am referring to,, I highlighted the veins with a marker to get you looking at lines.and as you might be able to see,, the vein is only slightly more than hairlike,,very thin. Even on the Ivy leaf,, you can see slight s shapes,,everything flows towards the tip,, and again ,, are very fine. This is only the way I look at and carve them,,you can carve them any way you like. If I was going to "tweek" it though,, these are the things I would do.I think also,, these things are what caught your eye in the other leaves I did that you seemed to enjoy..Regardless,, you did carve an excellent leaf.

[doris]

thank you all so much for your opinion ! ... yes, i was so confused that i first liked leaf, and then today dislike. i always have this with my carvings, but with this leaf was so much stronger...
yes, mark, the outline you found i drew for carving leaf, and from your B scetch already i see that my s-shapes veins ending in nowhere are what bothers me. they make no sense. ... yes, i enjoyed your leaves, the spikey ones even more, but i did not know really what made them so pleasure. i not wanted copy them, but try make my own, since i believed it is the book-and s-shapes, but i missed some points. ... i think i first try make the secondary veins go to stem, and then see how it develops... thank you, mark, your drawings are making me understand what i dislike :-)
ah, and susan, dont worry, even though i will recut, i will again create that texture, glad you liked it, i am fan of such too, so try do it :-)

[Irishman]

Great job Doris. I used a detail knife and a small veiner tool to do the undercutting. As Susan said - the undercutting will help add some depth to your leaf. Yours turned out really well.
Patrick

[mark yundt]

I think you're right Patrick,, her leaf did turn out really well.One thing I would caution Doris about is undercutting the leaf too much.It is a very popular misconception that undercutting will make something appear as if it has depth,,, it will not,, cannot and won't make it appear so.It will only serve to make it appear as if it's floating on the surface.The depth only occurs on the surface of the carving.That's the only part your eye reads and sees as an undulating, multi dimensional surface. If you took a board,,shimmed it,, or undercut it so it is above the surface of whatever it's sitting on,,it won't take on the appearance of depth,, it'll only look like a board floating over the table or whatever it's laying on.Prove it to yourself,,take a 1 ft square of plywood,, shim it 1/2 inch and sit it on a table,, it won't take on the look of depth,, it'll only look like a piece of flat plywood hovering on a table.I've used this example many times here,, but look at the figure on a coin,, there is no undercutting,, all the appearance of depth is only on the surface of the image,,,no where else..if you did undercut it,,what would it solve??only to make the image appear to be floating,, not depth.The leaves I did on another post were not undercut at all,,and in 1/4 inch of carving I feel these seem to have alot of depth and movement to them because of the way I handled the surface,,not an undercut.The same goes for the greenman,, I did very little if any there as well. I've seen many beginners try feverishly to undercut a carving mistakenly thinking it will help add depth,,only to wonder why it still looks so flat.They invariably stopped carving the surface too soon.Most any lighting falling on a carving ( or coin )will add shadows on their own making them appear fuller,rounder and having more depth than is really there,,,, not the undercut.

[doris]

here is the new version. i do like much better ... what i did is cutting the stem and main vein smaller, removed the secondary veins, and then recut the surface to put more emphasis on book shape but also make the shape "less excited". then i cut in the new secondary veins, thinner and more subtle s-shapes. and i did undercut the tip of the leaf (you can see the shadow it creates now on the second foto), since i wanted create the illusion it is lifted from the board. i decided to leave the "fat" outline shape as is, since i like it and to me it gives kind of peaceful feeling, contrary to a natural oak leaf ...
thank you all again for helping, and i do hope you like the new one leaf ...