Native American Indian

[Irishman]

This carving may go back in the shop for some more work. My randition of a Native American Indian didn't go quite as planned. Now that I see the pics, I see that I need to do some more work. This is posted to get some feedback...I'll start: The neck is not visiable; my symetry doesn't seem correct; the hair on top is too square; and the hair ends are too blocky...and I know there is more to work on. Please help critique and see what I can improve on. I had first oiled the wood but the grain was not working so I put on some stain to bring out the features. The wood is yellow birch and he is 3 feet high and quite think around...perhaps 80 lbs in weight.
Patrick

[slivers&dust]

Patrick I think you did an awesome job and I don’t think you should change anything JMO. I can definitely see Native American features.
Those areas that you are referring too can be enhanced, but if it were me, I would move on to the next piece and make the changes on it. Remember the things you weren’t happy with and concentrate on those areas next time. Again JMO

If you really want to change his neck, you could push back the sides just a bit by the hair and towards the chest giving him an adams apple and esophagus. You will then probably need to adjust his shirt too.

I keep a small mirror by my bench so I can look at my own face for referece. I also have collected a lot of pictures of Native American faces, front and side views. I don't have a lot of experience in faces but these have helped me.

Great job on the face!!

[slivers&dust]

Maybe the hair could be angled back as it comes down the side of the face and then a bit forward at the cheekbone rather then straight.
If you were to have the jawbone, at the hinge, set farther back, behind the eye socket and wider that might help in the neck area too.
I’ve never critiqued anyone’s work before so I’m a bit nervous about it but that’s what I see…Hope it helps

[Mark Gargac]

Partrick, I think the face looks real good. I think what your looking for is more depth in this carving, and it sounds like you have enough wood to work with. This could change alot of what you have already established though, but it's nice to experiment every now and then .I would start right there at the top of tunic, shirt, and make deep, stop and removal cuts, until you get the desired depth your looking for, thus pushing the neck back more in the process, the neck slants inward from the chin/jaw line back into the collor bone, dont flatten this area out. When this is finished you will have already created some depth and a stronger jaw line which is going to open up more possibilities in creating more depth and detail in your carving, like for instance, forming a stronger dental curve, which in turn is going to allow you more wood to do some experimenting with different facial exspressions in this area. The hair line looks good, get a part in the hair, this would help give the viewers eyes, an out, in this area. If you hav'nt already, get some good up close pictures of indian faces and study these details in thier faces, experiment with your tools to see what it takes to get these results in wood.
I might change the expressions on a face half a dozen times until I get the look I want, but you have to have , or be able to leave the excess wood to do so.

[Lynn O. Doughty]

After Mark and Tony's observations mine might not mean much but here's how it looks to me......Remember, you ask for opinions.

The eyebrows are much too pronounced. Same with the chin. Lower lip is too thick. And the eyes, I'm sorry but I just don't like painted eyes on a natural finished bust. It draws too much attention to them over the rest of the piece.

The first thing I noticed that was missing on this piece was the structure underneath. I'm as guilty as the next carver when I sometimes forget this cardinal rule of sculpture....Everything rests on the skull. Once there is a skeletal foundation, as long as it's correct, the overlying features will almost form on their own. I know it is different when carving than it is when sculpting with clay but that is the beauty of carving....you have to be able to see through the wood to see that shape. You can't create it and then build on top of it like you can with clay.

If my observations seem a little strong I apologize, but you ask for my honest opinion.

[squbrigg]

Patrick, while that is a good carving, I know you are looking to improve it, so the comments already made should be very helpful.

I'm no portrait carver, but may I suggest a couple of things. There is a very good book in the library of paintings of Western Indian portraits by an artist called Grandmaison. He travelled back in the early 1900's to Western Reserves and painted specialized in painting interesting First Nations people's faces. You migh look for it, or inter-library loan it, as it will be a valuable reference for you.

Your faces all show the same expression and look, well carved, but "fixed", you need to experiment some to break out of the pattern you have settled into. Study some of the books by Jeff Phares for instance. His series on Carving The Human Face, Carving the Nose and Mouth, and Carving Ears and Hair, might be helpful. There is also a book on Carving Facial Expressions that you may find useful.

You have the mechanics of the portrait down pat, now you need to work on the position, expressions and attitude of those portraits. Study people's faces, see how they differ and practice trying to achieve those differences. You are doing well, and you can do great!!!

Bob

[Irishman]

I appreciate the time carvers have taken to critique this latest randition...as expected, I do have some more work ahead of me.
Tony - I hear you when you say your uneasy about critiquing other people's work. I'm too much of a rookie and lack the wisdom of experience to adequately suggest anything. Having said that, I've been told by carvers that it is a complement to have others take the time to analyze someone else's work...and help them improve...and as Lynn said, sometimes its one's opinion. I hear what your saying about the jawbone...I need to set things back to get the hinge forming. As well the hair needs some adjustments. Thanks.
Mark - as always, sound advise. I will be removing some more wood to get the neck formed better...and try and get it slanting inward more. Parting the hair, got it. The only close-ups I have are pics from fellow carvers on this site and Jeff Phares book. I'll continue my search as there is much to learn.
Lynn - You'll probably notice that many of my carvings has that neanderthal look. I am trying to hone down the brow, and believe it or not I took a lot of wood from the chin and lip area of this latest carving. When I make the other adjustments, I'll do some more shaving and see how it goes. My influence on the lips comes from Jeff Phare's book. The eyes are burnt in and usually the blackness is softened as I put more oil onto the carving. I used to carve in the pupil and viewers in my area asked to have them burnt in instead...go fiqure. I have a picture of a skull in my shop to remind me of the bone structure underneath. Looking at this latest carving, he looks to have ample meat sitting on the bones. The pics show me how much I exaggerated areas in the face, and the sagging effect I was going for was lost somewhat.

I will be attempting the adjustments soon so thanks for the feedback. More is always welcome. Once I get my next project underway, I'll go back to this one with a fresh look. It's healthy to set carvings aside now and again...which is not easy for me.
Patrick

[Irishman]

Bob, you must have just posted as I missed your comments with my last reply. I appreciate the resource tip as I plan on doing more...and as Mark said, keep studying the faces. I recall someone saying on an earlier post that they could tell which carvings were mine without reading the post...that tells me that I need to get out of my safety zone and play around with more expressions. As I stated in my reply to Lynn...many of my carvings have pronounced brows...so I gotta change that. I'm going for broke on my next carving of a wood spirit...going to try something radical...let's hope I don't chicken out. Thanks Bob...I'll look for that resource.
Patrick

[AlArchie]

Those critiques you got from Lynn, Marc, and Slivers are pretty comprehensive, and seem to get the essence of the face down extremely well.

I'll just offer one suggestion, and this goes way back to when I was working and picked a guy by the name of Kairianen up on a warrant. I put his race down as Caucasian and he came unglued.....he was Mongoloid! A man obviously aware of his lineage, as many of the Laps in the areas of Sweden and Finland are not Caucasoid, but of Mongol descent.

In a similar manner, the many tribes of the Native Americans have extremely varied facial structures, ranging from very Caucasian looking features to those that tend more toward Negroid or Mongoloid. And among the various racial characteristics, there are innumerable individual variations, so to try to categorize one particular set of features as those of "Native Americans" is almost impossible. I think that we have all (most of us anyway) come to accept the Jeff Phares style of Native American facial structure as the standard. Is is highly representative, but there are many other variations.

Take the advice you've gotten and build on the concepts they have brought forth, but be mindfull of the endless facial differnces, and build into your carving the features you want to develop.

Al

[Irishman]

Good advice Al. I usually start off my post with saying "this is my randition..." to let me off the hook. You are definitely correct on the many faces...and depending on the author, the look can be totally different yet of the some ethnic background. I typically start carving with someone's picture of a carving then I drift into the way I see it. Problem for me..as Bob articulated very well...I slide into my stardard way of carving expressions. Thanks for your comments.
Patrick

Originally Posted by AlArchie

Those critiques you got from Lynn, Marc, and Slivers are pretty comprehensive, and seem to get the essence of the face down extremely well.

I'll just offer one suggestion, and this goes way back to when I was working and picked a guy by the name of Kairianen up on a warrant. I put his race down as Caucasian and he came unglued.....he was Mongoloid! A man obviously aware of his lineage, as many of the Laps in the areas of Sweden and Finland are not Caucasoid, but of Mongol descent.

In a similar manner, the many tribes of the Native Americans have extremely varied facial structures, ranging from very Caucasian looking features to those that tend more toward Negroid or Mongoloid. And among the various racial characteristics, there are innumerable individual variations, so to try to categorize one particular set of features as those of "Native Americans" is almost impossible. I think that we have all (most of us anyway) come to accept the Jeff Phares style of Native American facial structure as the standard. Is is highly representative, but there are many other variations.

Take the advice you've gotten and build on the concepts they have brought forth, but be mindfull of the endless facial differnces, and build into your carving the features you want to develop.

Al