[mark yundt]

Me thinketh an inner eye has been opened,,

Ya aint jest whittlin anymore...

Somewhere ,,woodcarving turned into Art.....

[Ashbys]

Lol Mark ,

I spoke with Susan , and I realized something that because of time , I looked at somethinsgs differently in the painting. I found things in the horse that today we would not realize because were not really around them .

Most people today would not realize , this horse at that time was a very elite animal. The breed was from the Spainish horses , these were the charger that the calvary (knights) went to from the larger draft horses of the armored knights.

They are prized for their intelligence and taking of commands. In the painting there are certain things done that to a person that has ridden would pick up on that normally would be missed.

First the action of the horse has been caused by a rein command. Thus the placement of Napoleon's hand this is a correct location for a pulling back of the reins, but the painter combined it with more to give a sublimbial message to the people that would look at this painting.

The attention of the horse , as I posted in the eailer message, is to the rider, the response was without question even through the horse could see over the mountain , he responded . But he didn't do it willingly . The lip of the horse is curled up in response to the command, showing he was not happy with it, but the reins have already been released, so the horse is now doing it of his own will but the attention on Napoleon shows the horse is following the command.

At the time everyone knew about horses, so they would see this and with the way it was done it is very subtle. So you would see this image but would be directed to Napoleon's face and away from the horse. It really is a brillant way to give a sublimb message to all who would view the painting. I only posted the to show that because of advancement of time , that simple concept is for the most part today lost to history.

Any way one leg done 3 to go.

[Kenny_S]

Been watching and reading the comments on this thread with interest. Not much of a horseman these days but did do quite a bit of riding and handling in my youth.
Ashby, I can't say if the horse's lips were curled due to what you said or if the rider pulled on the reins a little to hard to cause the lips to curl or hurt. Depending on what type of bit they were using at that time.
Just an observation.However, You are doing an excellent job on this piece and am waiting to see the finished piece.

[Ashbys]

Kenny ,

Glad your here .

I wondered the same thing, when I first noticed the lip , and if the bit had been set still , I would have just considered it part of the reaction. But if you can Kenny , take a look at the top lip how it is rolled , I know a gag bit can do this, but also look at the ammout of slack in the reins.

The bit if it was the standard bit , and really no way to tell without seeing the port, there is no pressure on the tounge , to maintain that reaction. Also look at the rein hand , the reins comming from the hand are taunt into the mane, then completly free .

Anything you can add or you notice would be helpful.

Ash

[Claude]

Looking at the painting, it appears the reins go from the bottom of the fist toward the bit, and the loose ends of the reins are coming out of the top of the fist. Is this the "normal" way a person would ride? I'm not a rider, but my reaction would be to have the reins coming out of the top of the fist and going toward the bit so my thumb could help hold the reins tight when necessary....

Claude

[Ashbys]

Claude,

I noticed that as well that sent me on another search of information. I have not be able to find any information directly that would say this was or was not normal. The painting from the time period shows it both ways so I decided to go a bit deeper.

The horses at that time were not trained to neck rein. They were trained more to the english ridding style of shifting the bit. If you wish to go right , pull right , left left , then using the knees and the heal lead into the turn to center the animal. The last part of that came from a 1849 manual used by the US cavalry. The manual was adopted by the US goverment for training in 1839. It contains 3 seperate book , School of the dismounted , School of the mounted and school of the regiment.

I am lucky enough to have access to an orginial copy. So I remembered something about the manual was an adapation from the Napoleonic service branches. The manual was adopted from French tatics by Poinsette. After searching I assumed this would be my best resource to try and answer the question of why the reins were held so. Poinsette's was little help except it shows posistion of the tropper mounted in a drawning and describes how the reins will be held in great detail.

With the hand rotated with the finger tips pointing down pass the reins under the palm and grip in both hands.

When a command is given and it is necessary to ulitize the right hand , a command will be given calling for the attention of the tropper.

Company : brings the company to attention , the reins will be tighten to a gather the attention of the mount.

Draw : at this command the trooper will pass the rein in his right hand to his left taking care not to loosen the rein. He will then pass his right hand in front of his body to the hilt of the saber , the saber knot will be attached around the wrist and the saber will be drawn 1 and a half inche to free it in the scabard.

Saber at the commond saber the saber will be removed from the scabbard and brought to a posistion of support arms.

I have done this action many times , the left hand is left in place with the finger tips down . The width of the hand can then give enough of a displacement of a tight rein to apply the pressure to either left or right cheek, to move the horse.

So I have no idea why it was painted this way. Unless it was normal for Napoleon to ride this way.

Ash

[Ashbys]

Just a few update pics , I have set aside 2 hours aday to carve for me, I can tell I am out of practice . But today I spend a little time working on him and a few free mins I thought I would take a few photos.

There have been a lot of changes since the last pics , the waistline , the sword hilt, the horse head , his head , and lots of material removal. The face isn't complete but the main structure is in place.

Suggestions , coments always welcome.

Ash

[squbrigg]

Ash, great progress! Have been following along attentive to the discussion, and enjoying the learning experience. Napoleon was quite a master at sending strong messages, so I would think that in his commissioning of this painting, he would have given instructions to the artist on how he wanted it, and the message he wanted the painting to send. You are doing a great job on the translation! Keep up the good work.

Bob

[Claude]

Wow! That's really starting to show the details. Keep posting photos, please!

Claude

[Ashbys]

Thanks guys,

I have been trying to seal time to work on it , never easy , but I did take some time yesterday , until the wife found me .....

Lots of changes adjustments ect .. so the updates

Ash