[doris]

i post this wip since i need help. i have that lady sitting on my workbench, and not know if i should put her into firewood, or if it is possible to rescue her.. only when i started carving her dress, i suddenly saw i have lost her symmetry :-( i dont know when and how it happened, and i dont know why i have not seen earlier...

i first made drawings, and then a plastiin model to work out how to shape correctly. but well, she is only second female face i carve, and first complete upperbody, so please do tell me what you think about her. what is good, what needs improvement ? does her face look female to you ? and most important, what can i do to get symmetry back ? i cant think of anything, the cut separating arm from body is pretty deep, so i think i cant push that, or can i ? ... i want learn, so your opinion is very welcome.

[Ashbys]

Doris ,
I think at this point there is no real problem. First although a face is similar on the left an right , in real life they are not identical. you can prove this by looking at a photo and covering one half so there should be some differences from one side to the other.

The face looks female, just not a young one. Reminds me of the older pioneer women, hard working , rugged lives that showed on the older womens faces. You have one shoulder lower than the other , but it is in a completly natural placement if the arm is slightly pulled back. The area of the elbow might be a bit thin to back that placement work but you can always remove the arm if necessary , or cut it in and make her thinner.

I think your comming along fine at this point, and I suggest you contintue as your centerline from these pics still looks to be correct.

Ash

[Lynn O. Doughty]

Doris.....The first thing I noticed was the eyes. To me that area should not be attempted until you've brought the rest of the piece up to the point of adding such details.

I have taken the liberty of attaching a couple of photos of a small head I started yesterday to show how I go about building the structure of the head prior to adding the finishing detail. I do caricature but I think this head could easily end up being realistic if I wanted it to. While the mouth is fairly finished the eye area has only been dished out to allow me to see what's coming. The skull beneath the skin and muscle is clearly evident even though it's covered. No ears as in this piece they won't show. Before I attempt the eyes the rest of the head will be mostly complete.

To me, the biggest problem carvers have is overcoming the desire to head straight for the facial detail before the necessary structure is in place. I'm as guilty as the next guy.

My suggestion? Leave the eyes alone until the rest of the piece is clearly established.

Again, these are just my opinions. It's your carving.

[Tom H]

Doris, Lynn, and Ash; I learn so much from from posts like this! Thank you all! and please follow through with more updates/posts, Doris. The braid is really nice.. Thanks for posting! Tom H

[Lynn O. Doughty]

Doris....Here's what I think of the body so far. You're heading in the right direction there but, again, you're outling the details of the clothing before the shape underneath us established.

A woman's chest area is, naturally, dominated by the breasts. The next most evident feature is the collar bones and small cavity where they join. That is just hinted at on your bust and should be emphasized much more.

The breasts? Uh-oh....I'm walking a dangerous line here! If she is a young woman they'll naturally be more firm and rounded. Older? They start to give way to their weight, i.e., sag. Either young or old they will point out at an angle to the body. Another thing that's missing from your piece is where the breast joins the armpit. That gentle curve of the breast back into the body and then over to the armpit is just too good to pass up.

Lastly, you're probably fed up with me by now anyway, where the clothing comes across the front of the breasts I'd let it drap and not let it go down into the cleavage. That will give you another little area to really make her appealling.

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

My first impression was that you are just not finished with it! I know thats obvious but sometimes when I get stumped on what to do next....I just let it sit somewhere and work on something else, and if I walk by it 10 times a day and look at it, all of a sudden, I see something and I fix it, then I see something else and fix it and so on and so on.....we get to close to our work sometimes and can't see the forest for the trees. One suggestion, even tho this is a matronly looking lady, I would remove a little wood under the chin to give her more of a throat line.. just my opinion...and actually think you have a great start!

[slivers&dust]

The part of the face that jumps out at, or really doesn’t jump out is the nose. Lynn is right about starting the detail to soon in the eyes and mouth. I have the same problem with my noses looking to flat so I’ve been concentrating on establishing the nose and working back from there saving the eyes for last. I’ve not tried a bust or in the round carving yet myself but from your start I think in the end you will come out fine, I looks like you have enough wood to keep working out the kinks.

I also hope you keep posting your updates so I/we can follow your progress J

[Thor]

Hi Doris,
First, I'm impressed with how well you're doing with straight woodworking chisles...
Then, a practice I've had to do to further "see" my work after the initial design is down and kind of not working yet, is to draw a sketch of the piece in progress...oddly, this helps me want to improve it in places myself, and gives me new directions. It's the same as previously suggested in just walking by it a bunch of times, but actually putting it on paper. Sometimes, looking at the photographs of it really helps too.
I'm not giving suggestions on the piece, because I have no experience with 3D portraits, but I do think what Lynn suggested gives good direction as well.
Please keep us informed with new pictures as you work.
Thor

[doris]

first, let me thank you all ! i am so glad i did overcome my fear of showing such a non finsih carving, and now i am so glad since your replies are so very helpful :-)

ash, yes, maybe i can try to push arm back a little, i will consider definitely.

lynn, special thanks for so many help. yes, i see your point with carving first the underlying structure, i tried, but got too early carry away. i did once follow a tutorial on your blog, the head of indian in snow, that was very enlightning... yes, i see your points on body, i have all this carved but way to shallow. yes, and need make breasts go with face, there you are right too... and, no, i am not fed up, i really am thankful for you taking so many time for explaingin to me.

hihosliver. oh, now you say it i see its not good shape under chin.

tony, yes the nose ...oh well. noses are even more problem than eyes. before i had cut the nose wings, it looked deep enough, then i made nosewings, and looks too short in depth. can i still cut deeper there, i need decide that. then i could push everything back, and make nose better...

thor, i like that idea. yes drawing lets me look different than if i just look. i will try this aproach.

now, i need consider how approach carving, to put in good advise. i will keep you updated, if i manage to make her better. thanks a lot !!!

[slivers&dust]

Originally Posted by doris

tony, yes the nose ...oh well. noses are even more problem than eyes. before i had cut the nose wings, it looked deep enough, then i made nosewings, and looks too short in depth. can i still cut deeper there, i need decide that. then i could push everything back, and make nose better...

This is where my inexperience kicks in Doris and like I said I’m in the same boat with you. Maybe others can help with this but I think you have enough wood to work it out. I just don’t know how to explain how yet.
I’m working on a piece myself that I’m trying to figure out the same issues. I think my noses are getting better, but the problem I made this time when cutting one of the wings I didn’t pay attention to the bevel on the gouge on one side and ended up undercutting the wing.
Now if I want to, as Mark Y says, “buy back some wood” to extend the nose more I will need to narrow it up also…I just don’t know if I want to do that because it . Do I live with it or move on…

Btw you had posted the link “No More Flat Faces” in another post. Thank you, that has some great info especially the side view of the face.
Also I’ve noticed that, When asked, I give an opinion of someone else’s work, it makes me look even closer to my own. Thanks