[Irishman]

I've been struggling with trying to make my female face carving look female. I had intended on trying to do the whole head, however, I misjudged the size of the birch log I chose. I already tried to make the eyes appear wider. Somewhere's I went wrong with my spacing as there is typically the width of an eye b/w the eyes. The mouth/lips have been cut away several times and replaced. I tried thinning out the nose and making the chin smaller. Perhaps the forehead could slope more...and it goes on and on. The hair is something brand new for me as I have never done hair of this magnitude. Would appreciate some constructive criticism to make her more lady like. I posted a thread/pics of my first version for Ian Norbury to critique but like many of us, he's probably busy carving.
Patrick

[Just Carving]

Patrick,

Not being a portrait carver, I can only help you from the standpoint of drawing portraits. When I saw you carving, I was reminded of the Mona Lisa, and the Statue of Liberty. I see them, and I don't necessarily think a man's proportions, I think "too hard". The facial features need to be softened up a bit--less bone structure--sharp edges in your carving--showing through, and narrowing of the facial features. Typically--in my eye--a woman's facial features are not as broad as a man's. So, you could make some more mods in the areas I've shown in the attached image.

Sometimes, it helps to "turn everything upside down" to get a better handle on what's going on. You need to change your perspective since you've been looking at it from the same angle for so long. So, if you're working from an existing photo, turn the photo and carving upside down and see if the photo and the carving correspond. If not, than take a picture of the carving, and mark up the areas that need to be changed. Mark a photo rather than the carving so you can erase, or throw out the photo and start over if need be. Once you are satisfy with the "plan of attack", than transfer some lines to the carving and you can begin to revise the carving. If you're working from "imagination" or a memory of someone, do the same. Take a photo of the carving, and turn it upside down, and mark it up to match what you envision the carving to look like.

Hope this begins to give you a different perspective. Maybe Irish, Mottles or one of the other "great" carvers can give you better help.

[Lynn O. Doughty]

For the last several months I have been on the search for the secret of the female face. I think I found the main problem I have been having and I think it might also apply to your question.

A female has a weak jaw. Beginning at the cheek bones to the point of the chin it is much more trianguler than a males. The jaw on your piece is much too strong, at least that is how it appears to me. It's also too long, out of scale with the rest of the head. If you view your face from the nose up and then again from the nose down you'll see that both areas look good. However, when put together they don't see to match.

I run into these problems all the time. Sometimes there is enough wood to allow me to save the face or head. At other times the offending piece is hurled across the shop before it is deposited into the scrapwood box.

[squbrigg]

Actually it looks quite good Patrick....but then as you know, not all women look alike! Some are attractive, some are beautiful, some are vivacious, some are gorgeous, and some are butt ugly!

As to your carving, might I suggest you narrow the chin a bit. The hair, undercut it some and make the texture very fine and less even, leave gaps or spaces along the edge, as most womens hair is longer and not usually quite so "perfect". I think the eyes look great. Perhaps higher cheek bones. I'm not a very good one for a critique on this sort of thing, but that never stopped me before! And I do enjoy looking at a good looking woman!!!

Keep up the good work.

Bob

[Ashbys]

Ok
Lets see if I can remember some of Susan's lessons.

The reason you think it looks like a man is you gave it a man sized lower jaw. I personally think it is very good and many women have mens features.

But your distance below the nose between the nose and the lip is too elongated. This gave you extra distance in the jaw line. Causing you to square the jaw. This squareness hardened the features.
Raise the chin closer to the lips and take it in slightly , I think you will find the change will round the face slightly more.

But this is only my opinion

Ash

[Kenny_S]

Native American female!

That was the first thing that I saw in your carving.
Native American women have a different jaw and cheek line than Non NA women. They have a bolder,stronger jaw line.
Hansome looking carving. Use a conditioner on the wood before you stain it to keep it from being blotchy.
Ash brought up some good points. But then too, those comments i believe were for a Non NA female face.

I say leave this one like it is and carve a new female head/face.


I like what you have done Patrick.

[Irishman]

I've noted how few female carvings I see posted on the site...and now I know why - they're a challenge, but satisfying when they turn out right.
Great feedback everyone!
Bob - the face came out of my imagination (perhaps I need a new imagination) and not a portrait so I like your idea of working from a picture and make my modification...then carve. I'll have to try the "upside down" approach - it would give me a different perspective. I have been narrowing her face but perhaps not enough.
Lynn - I always struggle with the jaw yet at the stage I'm at now I could easily remove some more wood as well as soften her features.
Bob S - Hair is new for me...never was taught how to do this...another course perhaps - thanks for the tip. Believe it or not, I lowered the cheek bones (instead of raising) in my last attempt to soften her features.
Ash - Yes, I see that the jaw needs adjusting. I don't know if I can modify the space between the upper lip and nose due to where my mouth cut is but I can definitely raise the chin closer to the lower lip.
Ken - I was told that she looked somewhat Native by some family members...my son says she looks somewhat cavemanish!!!
I'm getting good feedback on the jaw so we'll see. And yes I would like to start another piece but I'll give the adjustments one more try.

Patrick

[Ashbys]

Irish ,
Before you change anything look at these faces . Especially the one lady with the elongated face .

Ash

there is nothing wrong with your face

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

But a look at her face and you see it is trianglular like Lynn said, the carving could stand a little thinning in the cheeks and chin area...but I am not much for realistic face carving so wadda I know lol

[Irish]

Patrick, you are getting some great advice here. I hope you don't mind but I snitched copies of your lady and made a couple of changes to show what you are being told.

The woman's jaw line is more triangluar in appearence from the front of the face. Her chin bone is more narrow than the man's, her jaw bone rises higher in the back where it connects to the skull below the ears than the man's. In other words if you measured a man's jaw you would find that it is longer in proportions under the ear area than the woman's. So our jaw slopes to create the triangle look where your jaw comes straighter from the skull.

So what you want to do is shave the bottom of the jaw line from the ear area back into exactly where you have the chin bone now. That shaving will lightly narrow the width of the chin bone some.

Her cheeks are perfect! You can see with the photo that once the jaw is shaved her cheeks are exactly where you want them. This is one of those places where one area (the bottom line of the jaw) makes the cheeks look wrong.

Now in the second photo notice that I have moved the bottom lip back so that it is deeper into the face than the upper lip. If you put your finger gently on your lips you can feel that the lower lip does not stick out quite as far as the upper. Even with the slant you have to her head her lower lip needs to be tucked ... otherwise she is pouting

She is going to be beautiful when you are made those little changes and very femine.

Susan

(Can't spell worth a dern this evening ...)