Instructors - to carve or not to carve?

[Paul_Guraedy]

Woodcarving instructors have what seems to be a rather unique method of teaching. Basically, it can be summed up as the instructor carving half and the student being challenged to match it. I pose this question to both instructors and students:

“How do you feel about this technique and do you find it effective as a teaching tool?”

My own feelings are somewhat mixed. Initially, I found it to be a great idea….but, I was carving birds. I found it beneficial to have the instructor go ahead and carve a few feathers, etc. and I finished up.

When I started experimenting with caricatures, I started to question this methodology. I began to dread the instructor coming to my carving. There was simply no way I was going to be able to match the experienced work. Therefore I resigned myself to having a piece that would be eventually (after I did more practice) being consigned to the fireplace.

Then I heard another carver say (about eyes), “Carve one or both; but, do not ask me to match your carving technique on the carving.” The student, I later came to learn was a pretty good eye carver; but, used a different technique for carving eyes and wanted to learn the instructors method.

I thought about it for awhile and came up with my own solution. Now, I bring several small pieces of basswood with me. I have no problem with the instructor demonstrating on my carving, I am there to learn and do not claim these pieces as other than joint work or as my carving of a roughout from the instructor. Year's ago I always bought a second roughout to carve later and gain experience. Now, I only purchase extra roughouts of pieces that require extra practice or one's that I want to carve and use as gifts.

Back to the small basswood practice pieces. At first, I brought along pieces that were about ½” thick and a couple of inches long. I still do this…along with several pieces that are only ¼” thick, 2” wide and 4” long. It was kind of interesting when I started this. I told the instructor that I wanted him demonstrate his “eye technique” on a scrap piece rather than my carving. He and I were old friends so I did not feel too guilty for ambushing him. He reached for a piece he carried for this purpose. It was the traditional small stick and he intended to do the usual "eye carved in the corner". He started laughing when I said, “Wait a minute there aren’t any corners on the carving. Use this piece,” and handed him one of the thin, flat pieces I had brought along.

So, what are your thoughts?

[Mark Gargac]

Paul, this is one of the methods I use when I teach classes. I like to go around to each student for some one on one time. I have found that when it comes to carving the eyes, most of the time a student wants me to carve one on their piece for them and then they match it up. If the other students want to gather around and watch, then that's even better, this also helps when its thier turn. Students retain more when they are able to see steps continually repeated. Most of the classes I offer are instructed from my rough outs, a couple of my classes offered, are your choice from three different rough outs, for the same class. Students that take my classes almost always leave buying extra rough outs. Thats good for my rough out sales, but I also like to think of it as the students enjoyed and had learned from the class, new techiques that they can take with them and incoporate into thier carving style.

[Lynn O. Doughty]

If I were teaching a seminar on how I carve a certain figure I would expect those attending to attempt to follow the instruction I give and do things the way I demonstrate! What other purpose would they want to be there for. Socialize? If I were demonstrating how I do an eye, nose, foot or whatever and I saw a student doing something totally different I would tell him to do it my way or show them the exit to the highway! Allowing anarchy in the classroom won't let anyone learn but would only lead to chaos. Imagine going to a language class and only assenting to speaking certain words when the teacher is trying to teach the entire vocabulary.

Sorry, if you're going to attend a carving class at least have the courtesy to try and do what the teacher is being paid for.

[BobD]

HUH????

Lynn, you seem fired up, but I don't see what you are referring to...or are you speaking from experience outside this thread???

Bob

[Merle Rice]

Iagree with Lynn. Would you take an egg to a Restaurant and ask them to fry it for you?
Merle

[Lynn O. Doughty]

Fired up? Who me? Sorry if I went off on a tangent. I've had a few bad experiences with seminars where the student was only interested in learning certain aspects of a technique and then got upset when I devoted the remainder of my time to those who came to learn as much as they could. After rereading the posts maybe one of my noodles did slip out of place for a moment. As Emily Letilla used to say........"Nevermind!"

[BobD]

I wasn't disagreeing with you Lynn..In fact, the reason I commented is because I totally agree! That's just insulting to the teacher.

Now, I will admit that I was the guy reading 8 or 9 chapters ahead when I was in school, but that was just because I've always been a speedreader...and get bored easily when someone else is reading out loud!

But if I were paying for a class...it would be because I wanted to learn from that instructor and thought they had something to teach me!!!

Bob

[feb]

We have a guy in are club, an excellent carver.but when you ask for help with something he keeps carving and carving by the time you get it back its half done. the guys all kid him and say "are you gonna sign it " feb

[Mitchell]

I've taken a few classes and I have mixed opinions.

Therefore, I do something similar to your "solution". I usually work on two pieces - one is MINE, and the other is shared. If I have trouble, I ask the instructor to "help" me on the shared piece. Sometimes it involves them doing some of the work, or it may just involve a few pencil lines. I like your idea of having the extra piece available for practice. Since I carve relatively fast, I don't have any problems keeping up.

Gary Falin provides handouts for tricky details (such as eyes, etc).... that's a nice touch.

When I instruct (depending on circumstances), I provide handouts and also have examples at different stages. I sit with each "student" to be sure they understand those stages and steps involved. I also ask questions to determine what student is really wanting to learn and TRY to make sure I stress that when working with that individual.

One very big problem - as highlighted by Lynn - is that students come in many different skill levels and then each has their own agenda, eg. what they are interested in learning. That does provide an extra challenge for the instructor. Some students DO only want to socialize. Since they are the customer - I try to accomodate these variations as much as possible. As an instructor, you must consider the GROUP as a whole also, so you CANNOT allow one or two students occupy a majority of your time.

Both parties (instructor and students) should discuss what the "agenda" is before the class begins.

Paul - thanks for the nice thread idea.

[Kenny_S]

There are instructors and then there are teacher, The instructor may or may not give One on One time with each student where as the teacher really tries to give one on one time with each student. I like the latter as I can get some help that is needed. No all Students carve at the same level and as one has completed what the instructor has instructed on and another is struggling to get half way compe=lete before moving on.
I have taken one class and enjoyed it and ech one of us got the one on one and there were 10 or 11 students. As the teacher moved on to the next, they explained what youe were to accomplish before they got back to you.
I took the class to better myself in carving and painting and to learn new techniques but not to carve like the teacher(s). After all who would want a lot of little (Name Omitted) running around. Who knows, maybe the student would become a better carver than the instructor. Seen that happen before.

There is more to a class thatn matching the instructor's carving stroke/cuts.
The fun part also is meeting other carvers and socializing. Yes, you can take a class and socialize during it, and also accomplish carving a fine piece during the class.
If I can do it, any one can!!

JMHO!!