Acorn leaves on a gunstock; help needed.

[woodsman1st]

About a month ago, or two, I asked some questions on carving gunstocks and received lots of good advice. My first attempt of a chucker on a maple board came out so-so; not good but much better than I hoped for.
My next attempt, after a little more practice, was a standing whitetail buck on an old 22/20 over and under. Nothing to brag about, but I don't have to hide it in a closet someplace either.

Now my present effort; a cottontail rabbit running out from under some leaves on the buttstock of a Ruger 10/22 is a lot better. I got the pattern from one of Lora Irish's books. I made a mess out of the leaves that were originally on the pattern; so I changed them to oak leaves with a couple of acorns. The cottontail is fairly respectable; I am having difficulty with the acorn leaves though and need some advice. I have the leaves carved in place behind the cottontail (they could have been placed better I see now; but it's not bad). I tried to contour, or shape, one of the oak leaves so far, and I'm not real happy with the results. So before I mess up a carving that isn't too bad, I figured I better ask for some help.
I found a thread on oak leaves by Doris where she was carving an oak leaf, and asked for a critique. Reference was made about some instructions by Mark, I believe, and I have been unable to find a link to those instructions; or to any detailed instructions on carving an oak leaf. One other area I need advice on; how to apply a stain to different parts of a carving without it bleeding into another area where I will be leaving the wood a natural, or lighter, color. Any suggestions anyone?

So far I have purchased the following books.
Wildlife Carving in Relief; and Relief Carving Wood Spirits; both by Lora Irish.
Custom Gunstock Carving by Phillip Eck.
Carving Wolves, Foxes & Coyotes; Desiree Hajny.
Tom Wolfe Carves WOODSPIRITS.
While they all gave some mention to Oak leaves; I need more information. So any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

Some of the mistakes I have made so far, or areas that I know need improvements are as follows.
I carved the background way too deep in the beginning; and even a little too deep on the cottontail that I am working on now; I have to give that more attention.
On this cottontail I used a spray adhesive to hold the tracing of the pattern on to the gunstock. I have used this adhesive many times before for scroll work, but never left it on overnight. Big Mistake! In my efforts to remove the tracing I ended up losing most of the very light puncture marks from the tracing. So I ended up drawing the cottontail onto the gunstock free hand; came out good. But many of the puncture marks for the leaves were now gone; thus the reason for changing the leaves from Irish's pattern over to oak leaves. Frustrating! I found out the hard way that knives, chisels and gouges must be kept SHARP! or the carving suffers. No chipouts yet; I have been very slow, careful, and followed directions in the books mentioned above. Only drew blood once from a minor knick; I need to get those gloves; and a million other things. And finally, I can now see that I should have paid more attention to detailing and cleanup prior to applying any finish; an error that I will concentrate on with my present carving.

I know there are many other areas that need improving; I am just too inexperienced to recognize them now. When I have completed this cottontail carving I will take some pics of all three that I have done so far, then post them in hopes of getting some advice.
Both Earl and Steve have gone out of their way to offer advice to me; and that is greatly appreciated.

To sum up what I have carved so far, don't misunderstand me; when I say that I drew the cottontail on freehand and it was "good"; that is by my standards and inexperience; and when I say I am satisfied, pleased, or any adjective implying satisfaction with my work, that is again based upon my inexperience and does not mean that I think it comparible to any of the excellent work I find here. It just means that what I am doing is better than I had hoped for as a beginner just starting out in carving gunstocks. My next firearm I will be carving on is a much nicer firearm; and I need to show a lot of improvement prior to hacking on one of them.

Take care all
Ken

[cb1959]

Here is a neat video that you may enjoy viewing
Video: Gunstock Carving
Also a good book "Gunstock Carving" by Bill Janney from Fox Chapel for $20.00
Most gunstock carving is apparently done with power. Hope this helps
Charles

[mdallensr]

I sat through a brief seminar by Bill Janney and was amazed at how quickly he could create a professionally carved gun stock (quickly meaning days, not a few hours). Of course, he's done a "few"... It occurred to me while he was demonstrating the pattern transfer that his designs were similar to those I used to use in leather carving. He confirmed that idea and said the actual carving is much like leather carving in style and depth, although his carving is done with ultra high-speed engraving tools. So, other than Susan's great patterns, it would be worth checking you library for leather carving patterns. If you can see some of his work, you'll note he outlines his designs, which sets them apart from the rest of the gun stock. That makes it easier and neater to apply a finish only to the design. Good luck and please post some photos. Mike

[mpounders]

I also just purchased the Bill Janney book and plan to attempt a gunstock in the future. I have been practicing towards this end with similar designs, and this link to a cane I did may help some
Picasa Web Albums - m.pounders - Hickory Cane ...#

I draw the outline of leaves on the wood, then line them with a v tool. I grind down the background outside the leaf so that it is raised above the rest of the design. I use flame shaped burrs or stones to shape valleys and dips into the leaf, to give it a flowing shape. I look at real leaves to help me better understand shapes and porportions, but some are just more stylized. You can add veins and holes and other details also. Bill Janey's book describes carving into finished gun stocks and applying stain to the parts he carves. So the finish itself keeps the stain from bleeding to the un-carved portions. You also might try carving or burning a line between areas that have different colors, similar to the techniques some people use when painting with acrylic washes, to keep colors from bleeding.
Here is also the link to Mark and Doris's blog....you might look around and search....maybe the greenman carving would give you some additional help, even though I don't think it is oak leaves.
Fiebig and Yundt Woodcarving

[woodsman1st]

Thanks for the replies and info guys; everything helps when first starting out.
I have not been exposed to wood burning since my days at summer camp or on a playground; that was a long long time ago. Consequently I was amazed at the quality, and detail, in your examples I looked at Mike P.; great work!
The book, Carving Wolves Foxes and Coyotes, the author combines carving with wood burning for the details such as hair etc.; wood burning has come a long way since those long ago days of yesteryear.
That was an interesting video Charles; I have never seen power carving done before. The last time I was exposed to carving on gunstocks was in the late 1950s when I worked at Pachmayr's. They had a couple of the old time masters doing their carving in back; everything was done by hand with knives and chisels; even back then they got paid thousands for their work. This is the type of carving that I hope to accomplish; I doubt I will achieve their quality; if I'm not ashamed to hang my carved guns on my gun rack I'll be happy. I would also like to achieve some competency in carving wood spirits on my walking sticks that I make.
Today I will search for leather carving and see what that can teach me; thanks for the tip Mike.
I really liked that cane Mike P.; as well as your other work.
I am going to save that video to look at several more times.
Thanks again for the info guys.

I am still looking for any kind of information that will help me in learning to carve gunstocks; hopefully more will chip in with their knowledge.
I will post some pics in a couple of weeks; just as soon as I complete this cottontail & oak leaves I am working on now. I could use some constructive comments as I am sure I have made mistakes that I'm not even aware of.
Meanwhile I am really enjoying this new hobby; I spend most of my waking hours now either reading, searching for info online, and either practicing on some maple boards I have, or carving on my gunstocks. Right now, as youve probably figuered out, I am kinda stuck on the oak leaves; so today will be more practice on the maple boards.

Charles, Mike, and Mike P.; thanks again for your suggestions and help.
Ken

[cb1959]

Ken, here are a couple of sites that may help you some. Home - Springfield Leather Co. Inc. Springfield Leather Craft store in Springfield MO is a good place to start for leather patterns.
They have patterns and books that are helpful in getting some ideas. They have Al Stohlman's Leather Craft books that are good, he use to have a web site but I cannot find it.
Welcome to Dover Publications! Since 1941, we've offered great books at amazing prices, including over 600 titles that sell for less than $2.00! With over 8,000 value-priced titles we have books for almost every interest. Dover collections include fu Dover Coloring books have some real good designs and are available at Barns & Noble, so you can see what you are buying. Also available at the Woodcraft Store Coloring Books for Reference and Patterns Larry and family are also real helpful people.
Also Carving Patterns have a big assortment of both floral, and animal life for sale on CD's.
Woodcarving Patterns, Classic Carving Patterns Online, Wood Carving Designs & Patterns Online I bought the Complete set some years ago and have used a lot of the designs for woodburning. You download them from their site or they sell the CD and mail it to you. A little pricey up frunt but I have gotten my money out of it. Using tracing paper you can take various elements and mak up a nice layout.
Do not over look the books by Doug Lindstrand "Drawing America's Wildlife" and "Drawing Big Game" to mention two. These are great idea starters and you can use tracing paper and make a complete layout simular to the ones by Carving Paterns.
Some of these pattern layouts would be real good for the Moose horn carvings.
Please post some of your pictures when you finish up.
Charlie

[woodsman1st]

Those are some great tips Charlie; I will look them up today before I start in carving again. As a matter of fact, I have decided to carve several Oak Leaves on some of my scrap Maple before I return to my rifle carving. I figure it best to make my mistakes on scrap wood. What you have sent me looks like it will be a big help; it'll keep me busy for a couple of days anyhow.

Thanks again Charlie.
Ken

[sashadoc]

This is a short video, but it may help. You can pause the video and take note of the shapes. I,also,use a stippled backround on some of my work. It looks good on gunstocks also.
YouTube - Carving Oak Leaves and Acorns

[woodsman1st]

That's great Doc; nothing like seeing it done firsthand; and in this case the large size helps a lot also. Thank you
Ken