[Ashbys]

Susan,

Your slightly older than me , hehe couldn't help it.

I got out of high school, in 74. College at the time was not an option, my family was blue collar. I was expected to get a job, and if at some point if I could afford college great.

(For those that don't know what blue collar means in the 60's there was not only seperation for women, but for blacks and in employment. Upper management wore White shirts and ties, factory workers were normally supplied work uniforms, most of these uniforms were supplied with blue collar shirts. But it went beyond just uniforms, management in most corporation felt they were too good to be associated with the employees. There were strict rules about associating with employees. Very much like the military if your an officer you don't associate with enlisted personal.)
So I went to work in a factory cleaning machines, in 6 weeks I was running a production lathe, without a classifaction to do so, so I was still being paid as a machine tender. To me the money was great, at $ 3.10 an hour. Durning this time my family moved into WV, and I changed jobs due to distance. I went to work as a sear operator. Basically I cut steel sheet down for a manufacturing plant. I worked from 2 am to 7 am for my first big money $ 4.10 an hour. After gaining in state residence I applied to Sheppherd college and was accepted. so for the next 2 years I attented college, from 8 am - 4:30 pm and then started working towards a new job , from 5:00 to 9:00 I started learning to become a die caster , then home and the 2:00 to 7:00 back cutting steel.
The 5:00 to 9:00 job started taking off, and something had to give. College had to be pushed aside, I could not contintue, one of the few things I have failed to complete in my life.
Today I operate a small casting plant, and I can truthfully say, I have never paid any women less than a man doing the same job. Today many women are the real income to many familes, and prefer it that way. I give them a great ammount of credit because they earned it.
I don't talk in the realm of stats, mostly because they rarely tell the full story. And often they can be adjusted, to be meaningless. Something like this, in 1974 Bob Hope made $990,000.00 of income (90) percent taxable while a factory worker making mim wage ( a lot did ) $1.36 an hour on a standard 40 hour week , made $3000.00 a year so the average income would be $496500.00 . So yes I assume the avg income was 13k in 74 but I would also say 75 percent of the population made well under that . I know my father had worked up to plant manager controlling 300 employees only made 7500. 00 that year . So stats can be very misleading.

Ash

[decoycarve]

Wow this is a cool thread. My wife Anna now paints all my Santas and my santas have taken on a whole new level of expertize since she has. When I first started carving I did decoys. Decoy painting is very rigid and technical I could take a real feather and sit down with a color wheel and figure out all the colors, tones, values, primary colors, secondary colors complimentary colors and come up with the color that was on the original feather. Anna tryed to paint some decoys for me and absolutly hated it. I migrated to santas and I didn't like painting them. At the time Anna was still working as a seamstress and asked me one evening if she could try painting some of my Santas, well the rest is history. She has went on to painting much more than just my santas and enjoys it.

I have taught wood carving in the past and I have found the ladies much easier to teach. For one they already have carving skills from thier duties in the kitchen. The ladies in the class will take nice slices where the men will dig into the wood with a vengence. I find they will follow what I am trying to teach instead of forging ahead of me. There doesn't seem to be as much one upmanship with the ladies as with the men. The hardest thing I find with the ladies is building thier confidence in the begining once I am over that little hurdle hand strength sometimes plays a factor. Once a year there is a group of girls that have me teach a Santa class. We usually do it on Superbowl Sunday as I am not a sports fan. They all bring a dish of some kind and I have to be on my best behavior that day. A lot of men bashing goes on and I learned at the first one to be humble. Something along the lines of a dozen women with sharp knives and the family jewels as a trophy??? Even Anna had a Knife.!!! But really it is always a fun afternoon.

As far as sisters having horns I agree. I just turned 52 and my 2 younger sisters and my mom and me were talking about the old days. My sister told my mom they could tell my dad things and I would get a wuppin. My mom couldn't believe it. She asked me why I didn't defend my self. Well because I just get another wuppin for lyin. Still would go out as big brother if anybody messed with sisters and stand behind them today if they need help.
Just my 2 cents worth on the off topic.
Goody

[Irish]

Ash, thanks for sharing. I remember blue collar days as my Dad pulled himself up from the blue collar standards of WV to become a Mechanical Engineer ... the first child in his family to finish college. He was able to do it only because of his WWII serve and the college funds the military offered then ... and I agree that the region of our country that you are referring to did at that time had the equalvalent of an extremely strong cast system.

I agree that statistics can be misleading but as most prejudical activity happens behind closed doors and deep within the paper work of some office they are one of the only ways to meassure such progress.

Goody, It sounds as if your beloved Anna has found her niche in life! I have seen her work (thanks to your braging about here here on the forum ) and wish you would move over and let her into the computer and onto the forum herself.

BobD, It was I that started all of this and if there are any reprocusions because of it they belong on my shoulders, not your! I'm the one that drug my Soap Box out of the closet and got my tag board, magic markers, and pine board for the protest posters!

I would never wish to in any way jeaperdize you or your position here ... CLOSE THIS THREAD IF YOU NEED TOO!

I'm off that soap box now ... but as fair warning my horns are showing and I haven't put that soap box back in the closet yet.

Susan

[Irish]

WOW WADE!!! Thank you! (See Susan blushing right up to the tips of her ears ...... )

Susan

Do those smiley thingies come in a bigger size ?... Wade just earned a huge smiley from me.

[Ashbys]

Susan ,

Get back on the soap box! I personally think it is really important that information is given, and today little of the real information is given!
I have been very lucky in my life, my father worked himself as a corporate bum. The down side was we moved often , the upside we met a lot of people and saw a lot of the country. I was in Ala. when the civil rights marches first started in 1962. My father almost lost his job because he promoted a black man to supervisor ( against company policy) He used the drinking fountian marked colored only and received a formal repremand. And he taught me the is only one type of discrimmantion allowed , that is against a man too lazy to work. That is still our standard today.
I lived in 7 different states before I got out of high school. I found that in each state I was given state history and civics. I saw my father arrested for refusing to make military armliment , anti personal weapons which were dropped after a firefight in Vietman and would explode when the North Vietman people would come after the bodies of their dead. I finish school in York Pa. Since that time I have seen every law every right that was gained in the 60's over turned. Because of our lack of resolve to maintain our rights we are again where , it is ok to kill a man for your country , but you can't have a beer. Draft registration reinstated, ect ect. The only right gained that has not been taken away from our youth is the one of the right to vote , and sadly it is because it is the one hardly used.
So Susan stay up on that soap box, you and the other ladies, for if we are to forget history we are doomed to repeat it . Keep your voices clear and loud.
As for me I will honor you and the other ladies for your work your kindness and your deication.

Ash

[BasketballJones]

Susan, I must have missed something as I understood all of this to be lighthearted. I always wondered who Susan was now I know. It was a nice diversion you did nothing wrong and I don't think anyone is offended. If we all spent a little more time laughing in the course a day we'd all get through it a bit easier. Anytime I log online I stop by here for a number of reasons. So don't worry be happy.

[decoycarve]

[Goody, It sounds as if your beloved Anna has found her niche in life! I have seen her work (thanks to your braging about here here on the forum ) and wish you would move over and let her into the computer and onto the forum herself.

Anna Dispizes computers. She did Data entry out of highschool with a boss standing over her shoulder that was never pleased with her work. She vowed to never sit behind another computer. Iv'e tried theres a certain look a wife gives a husband that backs us into a corner afraid to come out. I have gotten that look about computers.
Goody

[Donna_T]

You know the cool thing that is really the bottom line here? We're all carvers....we're all carving friends. Who cares what our gender is as long as we're caring human beings--willing to share and help anyone who needs it. And most of us have a really sharp sense of humor--as only people who play with sharp knives can. If we can't poke and prod; help and encourage; challenge and support; and laugh, worry, and cry with each other, what in the world are we put on this earth for anyway?

Donna T

[wade clark]

Originally Posted by Donna_T

You know the cool thing that is really the bottom line here...we're all carving human beings-

Donna T

ISN'T IT FUN TO TAKE THINGS OUT OF CONTEXT! I think it's against the law to carve human beings! That was fun! Forgive me, Donna!
Wade

[Thor]

If nothing else, this thread has helped me get to know each person who has responded a good deal better. I feel more like I'm among friends. I know we're all over the place, and have our differences, but I'm seeing more similarities than I ever have too.
I keep telling my husband, that being alone as much as I am is going to make me a little bit crazy, so having dialog with all of you carvers is a sanity must for me. Off subjects help me keep it real.
Susan, you're very real and dear. Please keep it up.
Ash, my husband grew up in Sharon, PA. graduated HS in 70, 2 years of college in York...
Wade, that was too funny...

I also would like to say that as challenging as it was to make choices as a woman when I was growing up, I do admire and appreciate the differences of today. Men have changed too. While a lot still ask if I sharpened my tools myself, others are willing to take instruction from me without any further notice of who I am other than a carver.

My adopted daughter is a 19 year old black woman in our 98% white community. The story is long how I came to call her my own daughter. I am kind of amazed at how little she knows or cares about the human rights efforts. Old news to her. The efforts helped so many. She is in college, motivated, and pretty conservative compared to the rest of my household. Her background was being in a military family before she came to be with us. Her interests are in politcal science, so she has a lot to learn. We have a lot of debates regarding politics in our house, and she is always surprised when we point out that her views are considered conservative. She thinks she is liberal. Very interesting experience for us all.
Just a few years ago, there would be a cross burning in my front yard or worse, and now, there are laws that prevent those people (who still live here and I see them at the feed store and know who they are) from having the power to do just that without being prosecuted. I would say that is an improvement.
Choices for women today, all women, are much improved.
OK, I'm through rambling now. too much coffee?
Thor