[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

Originally Posted by wade clark

Paul,
It charges as it runs, never needs "plugged in", both off the engine when it needs it and off the lost energy of braking. There is a setting on the dash monitor that you can see when it's running on electric or gas. Also, if you need to punch it and accelerate fast both electric and gas run at the same time, kind of like "Turbo". It's really set up to where you never need to think about which it's running on. It's great though to be going along with no engine noise, when it's on electric, less noticable on the Hylander.
We took our Prius from Florida to Oregon and coming off the Rockies we used no gas! Doing 75!
I feel like the advantage of the current hybrids is more for the planet than for personal economy. There are other vehicles that are nearly as fuel efficient as the Prius, more so for the Hybrid, and the additional cost will probably never off-set the fuel savings, but they're definately better for the planet.
I'm kind of excited at what Honda has coming up, a Natural Gas car. You fill it at a connection in your garage (if you have natural gas), it gets 40+ mpg and...here's the great part...natural gas is about $1.00 per gallon!!!!! So that's like another car getting 100 to 120 mpg on gas!
If we can go to Mars surely we can eliminate using fossil fuels! And corn fuel costs more to make than it's selling for, so it's not really an answer either.
Wade

Besides! There are better uses for "corn" lol

[Lynn O. Doughty]

I hate to throw some cold water on this thread but I read an article recently about the operating costs of a Prius compared to a Hummer over the vehicles lifespan. Guess which one came out as the most efficient? The Hummer by a pretty large margin. All sorts of things were factored in but one of the main things were the batteries. According to the article to replace the batteries in the Prius costs around $5000.00 and they will have to be eventually replaced.

My Kowboy Cadillac Ford 150 only gets about 18mpg until I hook up the horse trailer then it drops to around 9mpg. Not much mileage but it pulls those horses without a wimper.Then the 4WD got us out of a real scrape when we were pulling the horses up a steep dirt road in the Rockies north of Durango a couple years ago. I love that truck!

[BobD]

As someone who used to write those sorts of articles, I have to step in...

Most of those articles are based on statistics, and with enough finessing, you can make a statistic say whatever you want it to say. A bare bones statistic can look one way, but if you take other factors into account, it can do a 180 in a heartbeat.

It's all about the spin of the article. I'm going to make an assumption (for the sake of the discussion) that all the parts came from the dealer. Since the parts for the Hummer are more readily available from sources besides the dealer, the dealer has to lower their prices to stay competative.

The price of the batteries, for instance...they are very expensive now because there are not many of the cars out there, so in order to recoup not only the manufacturing costs, but also the R&D costs...they are really expensive. But as more vehicles that use those batteries hit the market, and other retailers start manufacturing the batteries, the price will go down...

Take brake pads for example...if you go to the dealer, you can expect them to cost $75 or more; at Autozone, I get lifetime pads for $30...But if you could only get soemthign from the dealer, you would expect it to be more expensive!

Trust me...if I had enough time and energy to research the statistics, I could alternatively prove that a big old gas guzzler would save you more money than the above reference Geo Metro...it's all in the spin.

So what I'm saying, in essence, is to research more than one source when making a decision! And question everything you read!!!

Bob

[susieq]

Hi Guys,
Yes, we knew about the batteries....they are supposed to last about 7 or 8 years. And they cost $4k. I figure the prices on all of this technology is coming down....the price of the car itself has dropped mainly due to the dealerships not adding extra on to the suggested retail like they did when the cars first came out. They were hard to come by, there were waiting lists of folks who wanted one and the dealers could ask just about any price they wanted. Now with several makers putting out hybrids on a regular basis the dealers can't really get away with doing that anymore.

Also, the tech part of it is improving drastically.....every year. We went with the Toyota because they came out with them first, they have been around for a few years now and the customer satisfaction ratings are through the roof. Also, we have owned Toyotas in the past and had no troubles with them. They are reliable. But you do need a truck for somethings, which is why my husband is keeping his old Ford. It also is not just about the money anymore..... I remember the 1973 gas shortages all too well. It could happen again. And if you want this kind of technology to become main stream, you have to show the manufacturers that there is a market for it.
If you build them, they will buy........ We have to go down this road, we have no choice. We just decided to get on board now.
susieq

[Colin_Partridge]

I have to reply seeing I used to be a GM man all the way. You couldnt give me a north american car now after driving a Toyota. My last GM was a Chev Cavalier the biggest piece of junk I have ever had and brought it brand new. Now I own a Toyota Tacoma 4X4. I had a little Toyota 2000 Tacoma wheel drive that I paid $19,000 for and after almost seven years sold it to the first guy that came for $12,500. Now that is what I call holding its value. We are now a Toyota family my wife drives an Echo as do both of my daughters. My son an FJ Cruiser, my son in law a , an my daugher in law a Rav 4. My wife is looking at trading her Echo in on a Prias as well.
Yes I am sold best car in the world for my money.
Colin

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

Originally Posted by BobD

As someone who used to write those sorts of articles, I have to step in...

Most of those articles are based on statistics, and with enough finessing, you can make a statistic say whatever you want it to say. A bare bones statistic can look one way, but if you take other factors into account, it can do a 180 in a heartbeat.

It's all about the spin of the article. I'm going to make an assumption (for the sake of the discussion) that all the parts came from the dealer. Since the parts for the Hummer are more readily available from sources besides the dealer, the dealer has to lower their prices to stay competative.

The price of the batteries, for instance...they are very expensive now because there are not many of the cars out there, so in order to recoup not only the manufacturing costs, but also the R&D costs...they are really expensive. But as more vehicles that use those batteries hit the market, and other retailers start manufacturing the batteries, the price will go down...

Take brake pads for example...if you go to the dealer, you can expect them to cost $75 or more; at Autozone, I get lifetime pads for $30...But if you could only get soemthign from the dealer, you would expect it to be more expensive!

Trust me...if I had enough time and energy to research the statistics, I could alternatively prove that a big old gas guzzler would save you more money than the above reference Geo Metro...it's all in the spin.

So what I'm saying, in essence, is to research more than one source when making a decision! And question everything you read!!!

Bob

Unfortunately, it used to be called "truth!" Now the word doesn't seem to have much meaning....."spin" is a nice word for lies and deception.....

[BobD]

In a case like that it is all technically true...depending on the question you ask!

To be more honest, my job used to be to dig through all of that spin and try to figure out what was really going on. If an organization didn't fill a press release with so much jargon, than they quoted useless statistics that supported their point of view...

Nothing against the Forest Service, but it drove me nuts when I covered the Allegheny National Forest in Northwest, PA, and they would refer to a "stage-one shelterwood removal cut" followed by a "Lower Growth Removal Cut." What it meant was they were planning a clear cut, but didn't want people to know it...

And don't get me started on taxes...I would spend hours going over budgets for the school board or county commissioners trying to figure out what money was going for what...

And politicians...LOL...I had to cover several elections and special events where politicians spoke...most of them disliked me because I thought nothing of calling them on inconsistancies in public...

But to be honest, that is the toughest job I ever had...No matter what you wrote, you were wrong.

Bob

[Kenny_S]

ROTFLMHO. A carving board with what car to buy. Maybe what carving knife or gouge or where is the best place to buy wood, maybe books, but cars or trucks. Good grief! Bought a new one up truck last year. Looked at The Toys as I call them. Not much into rich burning. Oh they last but not in my neck of the woods, evern them 4 wheel drives. Not enough umph to get them out of the mudd in these part. But then, I didn't buy a 4 x 4 either. Don't need it. Have brains to keep my equipment out of the mud, .
Bought the little bride a new vehicle this year and one you can get in and out of. Not one you have to have aneject seat to get you up and out nor one you fall in to.
But then, I am not saying what I bought is better than any thing else. I bought what we wanted. Gas mileage isn't everything and besides, gas is the cheapest item you can put in a vehicle. Run it out of gas, nor big deal, run it out of water, Major deal. run it out of oil, Majo deal also. Big bucks.
Now another item that you put in the vehicle is YOU and I doublt anyone of you are cheap. But then, my post here has nothing to do with carving. Why post it, Because I can.
Now y'll get back to carving, ya hear.
Oh satistics are oonly as good as the person createing them. ot lie about their findings.
Toodles
Noodle has left the building