[gene messer]

Mark .. Excellent post ... There is always room for explaining safety to beginners and us old guy's alike ...

Mark .. I work in a industrial plant and safety is our No. 1 concern .. If you remove or alter any piece of machinery or equipment without authorization .. especially safety guards or barricades or other equipment .. you are automatically fired .. no excuses .. and I have seen persons fired over it .. Even those with many years at the company .. It is a rule that these days will not be tolerated ..

I know we all take chances .. I myself ( and I know I might get scolded for this ) do not use a carving glove with my small figures ... I just cant hold them correctly and have slipped more wearing the glove .. so I use a short 1 1/8 inch kinfe blade to compensate for the glove and carve very slowly and never take my eye's off the knife the whole time Iam carving ..... But ! .. I would never tell anyone else to do this .. especially a beginner ... I have just been use to this for a long time and never ever really cut myself .

There is never anytime wasted in talking about doing something safely .. In my profession .. You either do it or your be collecting unemployment ..

Thanks for the post ..

Gene

[doris]

when i started carving i used just my pocketknife... all went fine on the first 2 pieces... then, i started wear a glove since i had read this as recommendation for safety, and from that on i had in very short time 3 nasty cuts. one needed be sew by doctor. i understood the glove made me think i am save, and let me be uncautious, while when worked without, i never cut myself... now i am working chisels, despite these beasts are sharp as hell, i never cut myself, since my hands are always both behind the sharp edge when carving...and when sharpening, i made me a rule, to only think of the edge while sharpening and nothing else, so no flying fantasy then. works great as safetey issue for me...

oh, i have horror for machines for sharpening, just imagining of scenarious like mark described so vividly with flying sharp chisels made me never consider this for sharpening... anyway, in earlier times people got their chisels sharp too, just with manpower... maybe not suitable for a shop, because of more needed time, of course...
i found very important to make alert to the possible dangers and not giving away personal safety workarounds, mark, not all persons have so lively fantasy to see risks in these actions..

edit : oh i not meant this as a recommendation to not use a carving glove, but rather a recommendation to be concentrated on your doings all time...

[Bob_in_TN]

Very well said, Mark! Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm in total agreement with what you said. I'm not a rocket scientist, but I have worked on guidance and flight control systems of guided missles. Am I going to share my electronics background with the board, probably not, am I being a *utt for not sharing, some will think so. But I agree with your point, I may be posting to a carver with a PhD in electronics or someone who has basic skills of changing a light bulb. I don't know, and would hate to see someone burn there house down, or even worse, fry themselves. I think your post was very much needed. THANKS

[Alice in Wonderland]

Thanks Mark for reminding me ( even long winded :-)))))
I am one who just takes a tool and operates it, ( to my husbands horror) he gets very angry with me , and tells me " you have no respect for your tools"
So Thank you for give me a shove,
Alice

[Tom H]

Mark, I have been away from the computer (and house) for a few days and missed your initial post until right now. I personally think we all need an opening post like your current one, every now and then. Dead horse, I think not. Experienced wood workers/carvers as well as real novices need to be reminded of the potential problems involved in the operation of any and all power tools as well as sharp knives and gouges. I do not know the statistics of how many inexperiened vs experienced woodworkers/carvers that have become victims on power tools and/or gouges. But I would not be suprised if the number were about the same. I think I have seen it all as an old shop teacher and as an, emergency medical technician. When you don't know about the tools as well as when you take them for granted, and stop thinking about them; they will get you. We need to constantly be reminded. And we need to keep reminding others too. Thanks for this thread. Tom H

[Thomp]

I guess im the guilty party here that mark is refuring to,
but i never meant to lead the newbys down the guilted unsafe path,

I have closed the gate after the cows got out,
and edited the posts for content, let me know if i missed something.

[chuckt]

Thomp -

I don't think Mark was trying to point fingers at anyone or to make anyone out to be a guilty party. There are lot's of folks who break "the rules" around how machines should be used. I think his point is a subtle but important one though. On a forum like this you have a full range of experience, skill levels, and understanding of the electrical, physical, theoretical, and practical principles of machines. While it may be safe for the experienced pro to break the rules since they understand how to mitigate the risks involved in doing so, it may be misleading and dangerous to tacitly imply that doing so is ok for everyone.

On the one hand I am inclined to argue that free speech and caveat emptor (let the buyer beware) should rule the day and pro's should feel free to post their creative use of machinery without censorship, but on the other I take to heart what Mark has written and agree that caution should be exercised given the potential severity of the consequences for the unsuspecting.

I think at the very least it would be a good idea for those who are highly knowledgable - if they are going to post about some out of the normal use of shop machines - should post a big WARNING - DO NOT TRY THIS IF YOU DON'T HAVE EXPERIENCE AND UNDERSTAND THE RISKS. But perhaps Mark is right and these folks should self-censor and avoid even describing it to begin with.

I'll leave it to you folks who are Moderators to figure that out. In any case, just want you to know that we Newbies appreciate ALL the great wisdom and posts on the site and I at least understand that there will be at times differences of opinion, and if nobody ever tries something new or "breaks the rules" we as a whole never learn and progress beyond the basics. There is a balance in there somewhere and I am not sure where it lies.

Best to all!
ChuckT

[mark yundt]

Thomp,,Chuck T is right,,I'm not trying to point fingers at anyone or try and act as if I'm HOLIER THAN THOU. I'm not,never was. It only really dawned on me that since many of us know their way around a shop,,and take it for granted the dangers sometimes posed,,our advice could very easily be used by someone who just doesn't know.I've used many of the tricks posted,,taken all kinds of shortcuts and could tell you many more.But I don't think we can on a public forum where skill levels aren't known that's all.It was just a thought that struck me at the time. Changing angles on things like chisels and such can't hurt anyone,,some changes though can.Thanks Thomp!

[btree50]

There is a lesson for all of us to be had here. Safety devices are put there for a reason. I worked a a mechanic at a John Deere Turf and Lawn dealer for many years. I knew how to pass every safety device on the equipment. I had to get equipment to the shop. People always asked me how to do that. In no way would I ever tell someone how because of the liability involved. One doctor struggled to get his mower to the shop and then saw me drive it off the trailer. He too wanted me to show him the secret. I replied no cuz he needed all his fingers.
Safety stuff is there for a reason, use it.

[Ron Davidson]

I like Mark and others have our own ways of doing things after many years of experience. I have people ask me all the time how I run the machines in my shop and I just say I have my ways. It would scare most people to death to see me run a skill saw or band saw but I do and still have all my fingers. The biggest reason is I respect the machine and know how quick they can get you It always takes me several stages to accomplish the task but it gets done. It may take me twice or three times as long to cut out a pattern than everyone else but that is another secret don't hurry.
Ron