[mark yundt]

For all of you who know me,,you know I have no problem beating a dead horse and some things I can't let go.I know,,it's a character defect.I admit it.
Ususally though I do have ulterior motives for what I say in posts and why I get so pig headed.
Because we all "know " each other to varying degrees,are familiar with skill levels,know how,what each is able to do 'cause we "talk" so often,,I think might be part of the problem.
On another post modifications to some power tools were suggested as well as use other than they were intended.Now if I told you I NEVER modify my tools and use them only as intended you'd all scream LIAR,,and you'd be right.Don't think for a minute every safety feature is in place,,all the guards are there,,I can use them in ways that would make most of you veteran woodworkers squeemish.I take risks,,lots of them,,all the time.Will I tell you how I did it,,,NO.Am I being secretive with my tricks,,NO.I'll show you anything I do and how I do it,,,TO A POINT.
Many of you ,,as well as I ,,have been around power tools for a long time. I'm comfortable around them ( my wife can't watch me work though).They have no conscience,,they'll cut you as well as wood without a second thought.And they'll be ready to do it again next time you flip their switch.They dont' care,,but I do.
Because the tools don't have a conscience and I do, I find it hard to recommend modifying them without having a clue as to who I'm talking to,,what your skill level is,,or WHO ELSE IS READING.
We have to remember we take so much for granted.Experience has given us a comfort level around tools,,and do so many things without even thinking simply because we KNOW. New carvers and those around these machines of mayhem DON'T.
You see new people ask what tools to get,,they want to start carving and aren't familiar with tools.Great,,now they have their list,,how am I gonna sharpen them? Next post suggestions are made,,O.K..a bench grinder,,seems harmless enough. It's small,affordable,,,,and hey,,it's only spinning a cloth wheel how dangerous can that be? I can handle that I'm sure.Oh,,but wait,,if I remove the guards,,use it backwards it can work just as well if not better. I know this to be true 'cause the guys at WCI said so,,they're all good carvers and wouldn't say it unless it's true,,and I'm learning all the "insiders" tricks.Man,,so much good information!!!What could be better,,what could go wrong?
I shudder to think of the mother taking up carving for something to do while her children are taking a nap,,or the guy who has been a desk jockey all his life,,neither knowing their way around tools,,asking for and using our "information" and this one seems harmless enough.
It's harmless to you,,and me,,no matter how we might use it.But can the same be said for each of the 500 other people who were reading that same post????
To make a long story short,,I have my reasons for being a stick in the mud and a pain in the A$$. Too long winded. Beating dead horses,,but I have my reasons stupid and trivial as they might seem. It's trivial and obvious to you and me,,but not to many prying eyes of new carvers who don't know the difference.
Shops and tools can be very safe if used properly.I'd rather err on the side of caution If I'm asked for ,,or decide to give an opinion. I ,for some reason,,think it would be irresponsible of me to do otherwise.That's why I beat dead horses.

[Ron Davidson]

Mark I think your next one should be called. Taking the long way around the block. Sometimes it takes that many words.
Ron

[mark yundt]

Sorry Ron,,I know I can be verbose.But with your background I believe you know. For some of these "newbies" the worst cut they got was from shuffling papers,,the biggest thing they carved was Thanksgiving turkey.They weren't there when on a 10 ft tall band saw with 4 ft wheels and a 20 ft blade let loose,or the damage a 12 inch jointer can to to a human hand,a planer big as a SUV goes south on you. I've been there and have had to clean my shorts more than once.
Something as simple as a bench grinder,,well I don't give it much thought.Except when I saw the damage an exploding wheel can do to a mans face,,or how far into a wall it can toss a chisel.Some of these people don't know this.And we have to take that into account when we so freely give advice,,we don't know who is using it.Well,,enough of my preaching,,I'm sure I went on long enough.

[Ron Davidson]

I agree with all you said Mark. I once saw a guy try and feed a 30 inch planer the wrong way and he was what got fed. We do need to be careful what we say as advice. I also heard a guy one time thought he knew how to run a drum sander on hardwood floors got drug across the room and damaged the floor just by not being careful. I often wonder if they should have a shop safety kind of like hunters safety before they can use shop equipment. Could save lots of fingers and the like.
RON

[mark yundt]

Thanks Ron.As often as I'm misunderstood and misqouted I used more than the usual allotment of words. I knew you'd understand. I can apologize for that,,but I'd have a hard time apologizing if someone got maimed because of something I took for granted and suggested they do.

[AlArchie]

Mark, that horse ain't dead.....it's alive and kicking! I'm not sure which discussion you have in mind, but any mod that removes guards is not a good idea. Clamps, holding fixtures, guides, guards and the rest of the safety items are there for a purpose.....OK, so maybe some of the purpose is to limit the manufactures' liability, but still they are there for our safety.

When purchasing any new tool it's always advisable to check the little safety icons in the owner's manual. They outline possible hazzards and mention ways to minimize them.

I noticed a recent discussion on using those speed controls to slow down the belt speed on a sharpener/grinder. Those things work ONLY on brush type AC motors, and they electronically control the RPM.......not by simply reducing the voltage. Lower voltage will lower the rpm, but also has a decreasing effect on torque. The speed controllers maintain torque levels right down to the lower end of the rpm curve. Another thing to consider is cooling of the motor itself. Most are designed to run at a specific RPM and they have a built-in cooling fan designed for maximum cooling at that RPM. Lower the RPM and your motor will overheat if used for any length of time as the amperage drw remains constant.....kinda rough on the windings.

Try using one of those controllers on an induction motor and be prepared to blow fuses, burn the controller or fry some windings in your motor.

How do you know what type of motor you are dealing with? Simple......start up an induction motor and you will hear a quite hummmmmmm. Start up a brush type motor and you'll hear that high pitch whine like from an electric hand drill. Also look inside the housing vents and you can see some light sparking where the brushes contact the armature.

And if the "horse" was that discussion about reversing rotation, a simple switch of the capacitor leads does that......no need to skirt your safety guards.

And you are absolutely right about that type of alteration. Someone familiar with ONLY the downward rotation of a standard rotary grinder could find themselves with a gouge stuck in their skull if they try to address the upward turning wheel in the same way they are used to with the standard rotation.
Even a cloth or leather wheel can grab the edge and toss a tool at quite high velocity. (a 6" wheel turning at 3450 RPM has a rotational velocity of over 90 feet per second.....that's just a hair over 60 MPH!)

I guess alterations are OK if one understands the electrical, mechanical and physical factors involved. Unless you are absolutely sure of these yourself, it's just not a safe idea to pass these on to unsuspecting "greenhorns".


Ron, they used to call that "Shop Class" when I went to school! Both wood and machine, and safety was the main course of instruction. Not many schools today have either of those courses. Just ask a contractor how much fun he is having trying to find an employee who knows which end of the hammer to pound a nail with!

Al

[xsailer]

I graduated from High School Shop in 1959. I remember well our shop teacher’s comments concerning specifically the Table Saw. He told us he removed the safety equipment (blade protector) so we students would learn safety around shop tools. He then taught us how to be safe right after he showed us the proverbial fingers in jars. This definitely got our attention. Over the past several years I've had occasion to buy table saws with the safety gear attached and found them to be, for me, dangerous. I removed them and believe me when I'm around an open blade I'm careful. There is no false security in my mind. I know my comments may be having several responses but it works for me. Incidentally I'm usually the only one working in my shop using my tools.
Please don't have a heart attack over my comments.

[AlArchie]

No heart attack here, Xsailor! As long as you don't recommend folks remove those guards, do as you want with your own equipment. We all have a lot of "Do as I say, not as I do" habits.

An interesting analogy......when I taught woodcarving at the local Scout Camp a few years back, they had never even thought about wearing safety gloves, and hadn't made arrangements to get them. The first summer there, I brought an average of 2 kids a week to the doc for stitches, and a lot more over to the first aid shack. Next year I ordered kevlar gloves from Rick for all our carvers. NOBODY that year to the doc for stitches and durn few to the first aid shack.....maybe one a week.....maybe! I instituted a few more safety practices, too but the big thing was the gloves. Do I wear a glove in my shop? Mostly NO, but I always reecommend and demonstrate wearing one if I'm instructing anyone.

Al

[chuckt]

I am the newbie who was on that other thread and I for one GREATLY appreciate Mark's attention to this dead horse. I think everyone here will agree that SAFETY is of primary importance ESPECIALLY for us newbies. Watching out for what folks here advise others to try or do although it may earn some frowns from some at times is a good and noble thing to do. I for one appreciate it.

As for me personally - because of my limited budget, space, and time - I've been an arm chair woodshop wanna be for quite some time. Long term subscriber to Fine Woodworking and others. Because I had kids around and because I had no money to aquire large power tools - I focused more on small crafty projects with a Scroll Saw, 10" band saw, and 4" belt/6" disk sander. I was more intrigued by "neanderthal" approaches to woodworking anyway - for historical as well as safety reasons based on all the horror stories from veterans and books. (A good friend of mine's father lost 3 fingers in a jointer accident because he tried to rush "just one more" before dinner. My brother in law lost half of a ring finger and a pinky becasue of removed pulley guards on a lawnmower.) So I have a healthy respect for the power even a "small" power tool represents and its why I prefer non-powered approaches for myself. Asthetically as well. I just don't like the noise and the mess of dust. But then - I am not a production shop with deadlines to meet so I can take my time.

Anyway - as you can see - I can be long winded too. So you aren't alone in that dept. Mark.

Thanks to everyone who offers their advice here and who look out for us newbies to the extent you are able. Mark's advice to be mindfull of the audience and the varying skill and knowledge levels make perfect sense to me. Doesn't strike me as pig headed at all.

!
ChuckT

[mark yundt]

I know I ruffle feathers at times,,and it's usually over nonsense,but I'm so glad you understand my concern here. Thank you all for your patience and thoughtfullness