Advise needed for teaching youngsters

papasar · #1 04-08-2006, 09:14 PM

Help!!
At a show last week a mother talked about having her 8 yr old join our club to learn chip carving. I told her I would help get him started by having a knife, strop, compound and practice boards and some lessons to get him started. Now I'm starting to wonder about liability. I intended to give the kit to the mother so she can present it to her son. But I'm also going to suggest that she learns to carve so she can help him when the club does not meet and also to avoid the possibility of becomming a babysitter. I know I have to run the liability thing past the officers of the club especially since the question never came up. We have an 8 yr old girl that carves with her father so there is no problem there. Some local scout troops use plastic knives and soap to teach because of past problems so my fears are not unfounded.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Bill K.

The next meeting is in 3 days.

Hi_Ho_Sliver · #2 04-08-2006, 09:42 PM

I did a little teaching of young ones in an oil painting class at a gallery I was in, the owner conned me into it ha ha.........but the young ones have a very short attention span, and I would not be comfortable with them having a sharp knife in their hand! the soap and plastic knife or a popsicle stick with a bit of an edge is a good way to start I think....imho

Colin_Partridge · #3 04-08-2006, 09:53 PM

I teach my grandson and also at his school I teach carving to the special education kids. All of these kids are ADD or ADHD some are three grades behind. Now these are my observations. These kids give me their complete undivided attention (there are 16 of them) When I arrived at the class I thought I had bitten off more than I could chew these kids were literally "off the wall". Not only did I teach them to carve but also took them one at a time and gave them 1 on1 instruction. Making sure I kept my hands on their hands at all time to make sure all the flesh was behind the cutting edge. You should have seen the carving that the 16 of them produced it was amazing. No shinanigans not outbursts just full attention. So as far as liability goes I didnt even think of it I am sure if you have the child or childrens parents concent I dont think liability is a factor. Just my observations and comments.
Colin

Krum · #4 04-08-2006, 10:07 PM

I myself would have the parent sign a waiver. That way your protected and your club from a law suit and medical bills. Things can happen..kids and adults. And it would be less stress on you worrying to hear the oh oh!
My 2 cents.
Krum

whitecree · #5 04-08-2006, 10:31 PM

A waiver AND make sure both the kid and parents know that even with the best of intentions, with all due care, with the kid concentrating and trying, sooner or later he/she WILL get cut. Best to sort that out right from the word go, because we all know there isn't a carver alive who hasn't sliced herself/himself up.

decoycarve · #6 04-08-2006, 10:48 PM

We taught a class last year for a cub scout troop. The scout master brought paperwork releasing us of liability. I was still apprehensive but all went well no one cut themselves the kids had a blast and Anna and I went home tired. It is hard to keep the kids interested. I amy start teaching again but not until I sit down with my lawyer.
This was a good thread about teaching. And down into the post is a couple of pics of the scouts.
teaching beginning carving
Goody

JIM QUILICI · #7 04-08-2006, 11:14 PM

I go to Senior citizens on Mon and Wed to carve, the one on Mon. for the freind ship of the older people who I carve with, on Wed I drive 20 miles to Tracy ,ca. and take 2 of my grand kids ( who live in Tracy ) there to carve ( senior center don't mind if grandkids go ) the things they carve are simple but cute. I my self get very little carving done. I put one kid on one side the other on the other side ( 8yrs & 13yrs.old) they get all my attention. their knives are as sharp as I can get them. I dont let them carve unless I know where every slice of wood is being carved. I take a pencil and draw the stop cuts and shade out where the wood is to be cut out. and you are right their attention span is short. but the bond I am getting from teaching them carving is worth 1 1/2 million dollars , if you can put a price tag on it. I actually have more laffs and fun with my grand kids than I do with the older bunch. and we have fun. in the year that I have doing this they have only had one very minor cut . I hope that I am teaching something that they can do the rest of their lives . and always remember that their grampa taught them. boy what a blessing.
Just old Jim

Donna_T · #8 04-09-2006, 08:45 AM

In the 16 years we've had a carving club with members who either teach a carving class from time to time or are willing to work with newbies on a one-on-one basis, we've not had very good luck with kiddos under 12. As it's been said, their attention span is short and they're not as patient to follow instructions when they are younger than that. We've had perhaps 1/2 dozen who were at least 12 when they started that actually got pretty good. First thing we do is insist that they get a thumb guard and a carving glove. And we ask the parent to be present--even if they are just eleswhere in the building or sitting off to the side reading.

We presently have a pre-12 year old trying to learn carving with our club. She is a sweetheart and eager to learn, but she was not very good to follow instructions to start with---one of us talked to her mama and explained that not following instructions could make her more likely to get cut, and not practicing or doing any carving between meetings would mean that she wouldn't learn as fast or as well as she could. Since one of our veteran teachers is working with her, we just finally said if she wanted to learn, she needed to sit by him and do what he said or he wasn't going to waste his time. She's been much better since then. As I said, she's a sweetie, but a bit young yet.

Although we don't do it, the release of liability form is a great idea. Making the parent stay close by should be mandatory because if the kid gets cut and needs medical attention, no one has the authority to seek treatment for them but the parent.

I think any time spent with a youngster trying to teach them anything that doesn't have to do with television or computers is a great investments--but the younger they are, the more difficult it is to teach them to carve. Of course, once they turn 16, forget it! So there's a small window of opportunity. That's my experience and HO.

Donna T

papasar · #9 04-09-2006, 10:13 AM

Thanks folks for the great and rapid response.

If nobody minds, I am going to print the responses and give copies to the club officers.

My mind is pretty much set after your experiences but they need to know about them
Bill K.

Lightningbolt · #10 04-09-2006, 10:56 AM

Just one more thought to add... even if the parent signs a waiver, if YOUR negligence can be proved during instruction (and today's lawyer's are good at doing so) you WILL still be held completely liable.

Just to remind you to put a lot of thought into liability which it sure appears that you're doing. I work with 14-16 year olds and I'd imagine that 8 year olds is a whole different ball park so the soap carving just might be the best way to introduce them to carving then lead them on to a progression toward using "real" knives when they've proved their competency. I'd imagine that if you had a plan of progression in place then that'd carry a lot more weight in your favor with a judge and/or jury.

In today's world you've got to think in terms of liability, but in a way it's probably a good thing too. I know that I'd want my kid in good hands if I trusted someone to work with him. Just my 2 cents.