[Thomp]

being a little confused by the hype of different companys making clames of higher wattage and better tips,

other companys say its all hype, becuse the way they measure the wattage draw at the wall plug in, not whats delevered to the nib..

maybe we can all benifit from telling

what burner we own and the features we like as well as the short commings of particular units, favorite nibs and tips as there is surely hundreds of them to choose from...

1. whats the best brand for begainers or someone that wants to really get into pyrography.

2.Whats the general concensus on handpieces

3. is a fixed tip better than replacable tips?
its surely more expencive according to razortip site.

4. whats the best tip for fine detail?

[Pyrographer]

Originally Posted by Thomp

being a little confused by the hype of different companys making clames of higher wattage and better tips,

other companys say its all hype, becuse the way they measure the wattage draw at the wall plug in, not whats delevered to the nib..

maybe we can all benifit from telling

what burner we own and the features we like as well as the short commings of particular units, favorite nibs and tips as there is surely hundreds of them to choose from...

1. whats the best brand for begainers or someone that wants to really get into pyrography.

2.Whats the general concensus on handpieces

3. is a fixed tip better than replacable tips?
its surely more expencive according to razortip site.

4. whats the best tip for fine detail?

Well, I don't make the burners but I do sell some of them. I sell both Razertip and Burnmaster but use the Razertip most of the time. I also use one of those cheap single-temperature burners as well. I've used most all the brands but like the Razertip dual output the best, although I'm learning a new respect for my Wall Lenk single temperature burner . I might suggest that you look at my website. I have a tutorial (click on the link to Pyrography 101 tutorials) on the Razertip pens and it includes information on fixed tip vs interchangeable tips. It also has information on the various pens, uses, etc. I only use and sell the fixed tip although when I first started I was talked into (by the vendor) buying interchangeable and I hated them.....

Yes, each company makes it's own claims. That's marketing.

One of the most popular pens I sell for fine detail is the F1S and F7S. It also depends on what you are going to do with your burning as to what will work best for you. I use the HD5MP bent spear shader for practically EVERYTHING I do. Every portrait, the golden eagle, everything is done from start to finish (except the signature) with this pen. Even the tiny details in the eyes, etc. IT's all in the technique and learning what you can do with each pen. I also use a writing tip or small ball tip for writing and a rounded-heel knife (#14) for very fine crisp lines that I can't achieve with the side of my shader.

Don't get hung up on the wattage claims. Most of the detail burners are about the same and the only burner I know that claims to go hotter than everyone else....well what the heck do you need to go to 2000 degrees anyway. I have never gone even close. Even when I want to burn black backgrounds I use my cheap single temperature burner that goes to 1000 degrees and that's fine!!!!

The key to a good burning that will not fade over time is to burn in layers, darkening one layer at a time and burning deep. When you burn at a very high temperature in one fell swoop you are burning the surface only. The other thing is that if you burn at that high a temperature you will wear out your pens prematurely and have to buy replacements. The only tips that can withstand such high temperatures for extended periods are those thick solid-point copper pens on those cheap single temperature burners. None of the detail burners can do that without damaging the tips eventually. You do not want them to be poker hot despite what some companies claim.

Sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes here but I am a pyrographer, not a carver. That's what I do and my comments are based on my own humble personal and professional opinion.

Nedra

[Thomp]

Thanks Nedra,

pardon me, i tend to be blunt and argumentive at times, please believe me im not trying to be in any way in this reply,

I was reccomended a nibsburner, the entry level About $59.00-79.00 depending where you look. 115 model i think, but after looking at what was available, i question if thats what i want...
i do want something versatle and sometimes yes the money is the object, when your retired or on fixed income. or just cheap. but i understand just like cars options cost more. you have to weigh the need for the options especially if your not in the knowledge cliche of a particular feature.

the Comments you provided are what I and others need to base opinions on, maybe others will appreciate the information as much as I do to make an informed decision on which equipments are best suited for the applications...

my experiance with woodburning, is yep I branded wood with hot metal and burnt it with them kid wood burners that look like a screwdriver.. other than poking at the wood with a red hot screwdriver.
but I do think the burning experience with a professional pyrograpgic station will be quite a difference and an enhancement to anybody's artistic skills. it would be more like sketching, which gives power to create and control I would believe.

maybe carving and pyrography combination might be a way to achieve the scenery..

many folks, myself included, have so many times bought an item only to find for a few bucks more we could have got a better item, Without knowledge of a new item to a person the problem is the person dont know what they will need to begain with.

moral its not always best to buy cheap,
but on the other hand its foolish to toss your hard earned bucks into the wind for the big brass ring
when the lesser item will suffice for your needs...
classic case is battery operated tools. drills and saws.

Your comments on the fixed pens being best is what I was going to make my decision on, based simply on they have less connections, and less weaker electrical links.

As I understand the weak links in a pyrography station cause heat build up in the faulty connections thus drawing power heat and preformance from the nib...
in this aspect it seams logical that the perminate mounted pen would out perform the replaceable nibs over time,

as the press on connections would corrode with oxide eventually and require cleaning to make better contact.. cleaning causes wear, loosening the connection further...

im not looking at the long term maintence of handpieces as a pyrography user-artist?
I am looking at it from the perspective of metal properties, heat-cooled cycles and what happens in time here on the working end..

As I see it thusfar the units are pretty much basically built the same, they all have transformers, a few differences like power amperage-wattage ratings, better switches, lights, dual outlets and bigger wire in the leads. differs with cost. and different garentees. but what really counts?.

thomp

[Pyrographer]

Originally Posted by Thomp

Thanks Nedra,

pardon me, i tend to be blunt and argumentive at times, please believe me im not trying to be in any way in this reply,

I was reccomended a nibsburner, the entry level About $59.00-79.00 depending where you look. 115 model i think, but after looking at what was available, i question if thats what i want...
i do want something versatle and sometimes yes the money is the object, when your retired or on fixed income. or just cheap. but i understand just like cars options cost more. you have to weigh the need for the options especially if your not in the knowledge cliche of a particular feature.

the Comments you provided are what I and others need to base opinions on, maybe others will appreciate the information as much as I do to make an informed decision on which equipments are best suited for the applications...

my experiance with woodburning, is yep I branded wood with hot metal and burnt it with them kid wood burners that look like a screwdriver.. other than poking at the wood with a red hot screwdriver.
but I do think the burning experience with a professional pyrograpgic station will be quite a difference and an enhancement to anybody's artistic skills. it would be more like sketching, which gives power to create and control I would believe.

maybe carving and pyrography combination might be a way to achieve the scenery..

many folks, myself included, have so many times bought an item only to find for a few bucks more we could have got a better item, Without knowledge of a new item to a person the problem is the person dont know what they will need to begain with.

moral its not always best to buy cheap,
but on the other hand its foolish to toss your hard earned bucks into the wind for the big brass ring
when the lesser item will suffice for your needs...
classic case is battery operated tools. drills and saws.

Your comments on the fixed pens being best is what I was going to make my decision on, based simply on they have less connections, and less weaker electrical links.

As I understand the weak links in a pyrography station cause heat build up in the faulty connections thus drawing power heat and preformance from the nib...
in this aspect it seams logical that the perminate mounted pen would out perform the replaceable nibs over time,

as the press on connections would corrode with oxide eventually and require cleaning to make better contact.. cleaning causes wear, loosening the connection further...

im not looking at the long term maintence of handpieces as a pyrography user-artist?
I am looking at it from the perspective of metal properties, heat-cooled cycles and what happens in time here on the working end..

As I see it thusfar the units are pretty much basically built the same, they all have transformers, a few differences like power amperage-wattage ratings, better switches, lights, dual outlets and bigger wire in the leads. differs with cost. and different garentees. but what really counts?.

thomp

Thomp I can't say anything good, bad or indifferent about the Nibsburner. I have never tried it. They were supposed to send me one to try but they never did. I will NEVER make any statements or opinions on something I have never used myself. So, I refrain from commenting but I will say that 115 watts is not much and I wonder if you would be happy with that. Yes, it's cheap but as you pointed out is it worth buying cheap and then having to to upgrade later.

I did that route when I started burning and had many regrets. Yes, all burners are basically the same...a transformer but some have more power than others.

Whether you are going to use it part-time or full-time be sure you are getting one that you will be happy with for the long haul so you don't have to upgrade later when you are frustrated with the lack of power. You don't need one that burns 2000 degrees but somewhere in the middle. What counts with me is the company that stands behind the product and that's not the retailer, it's the manufacturer. Now of course if you get a good product you should have to deal with them but god forbid if you do, you want a company that provides good customer service, is good to deal with and that is one of my critieria in considering whether I will buy from them. Guarantee is another important thing. Most have 1 year against manufacturing defects only. Most do not have any warranty on the pens. Those are important considerations in my opinion, not just price and features. Let's face it...they all have temperature dials, they all heat up about the same...so what's going to be the difference between a good burner and a better one????

Nedra

[Thomp]

ok then take me out of all this confusion..

if brand x and brand y can use the same tips,
brand x is a 50 watt unit
brand y is a 130 watt unit

how are the nibs rated... ???

on nibsburner mnf site they say their tips can muster 2000 degreese but reccomend 700 degreese for burning... to prolong the life of the nibs..

razortip dont say...

i can see how brand x wont have power enough to deliver scorching 1500 degree tempatures for long before it overheats or burns up.

where the brand y has that much power at a lower settings and more in reserve if you need it without damaging the unit.

or am i just mudding up the water here with my line of thought

are the nibs rated for amperage wattage ?

[dutchmanmk3]

Well first, I'm no pyrographer. I'm a detailer. Second My experience is limited to The SMC Optima/Ultima and the Colwood units.

Most of the better quality units are remarkably similar, and most utilize the RCA jacks so your choice in pens is not necessarily limited by the unit you choose.

I have never found power to be an issue. The Optima is rated at 40W and has more than enough power even for Bubinga. What I DO actually find useful is the low end fine adjustment, and the Optima/Ultima are my favorites because of their splendid control, and repeatablitity in adjustment.

What I am saying is they all pretty much burn wood just fine ! But, the real difference is in the ability to "Accurately" control that burn ! I am very happy with both the SMC Optima/Ultima and Colwood units. While I am always intrigued by subtle differences in tooling, I subscribe to the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" train of thought. A dedicated pyrographer might be able to better appreciate the finer differences ? Based on my rather limited experience, That's my story and I'm sticking to it !

[Kenny_S]

My experience is limited to Dial-A-Temp and the el-cheapo kid's burners. However, The Dial-A-Temp does have a variable dial and does burn good. Only problem it used copper and brass tips lsimular to the el cheapos. No nice knife tips or shaders. Have used it on some carvings.

[Pyrographer]

Originally Posted by Thomp

ok then take me out of all this confusion..

if brand x and brand y can use the same tips,
brand x is a 50 watt unit
brand y is a 130 watt unit

how are the nibs rated... ???

on nibsburner mnf site they say their tips can muster 2000 degreese but reccomend 700 degreese for burning... to prolong the life of the nibs..

razortip dont say...

i can see how brand x wont have power enough to deliver scorching 1500 degree tempatures for long before it overheats or burns up.

where the brand y has that much power at a lower settings and more in reserve if you need it without damaging the unit.

or am i just mudding up the water here with my line of thought

are the nibs rated for amperage wattage ?

To my knowledge the tips are not rated for a particular amperage/wattage. Specific questions regarding this should actually be addressed by the manufacturers. I would suggest if possible to get Cam (Razertip) here to answer this question. I know I use his tips on both his burner and the Burnmaster which is 130 watts and have no problem. Of course I also don't crank up the temperature to the limit. Burning at the high temperatures for prolonged periods with any of those detail burners is going to shorten the life of them but frankly I don't know many people who have the need to do that.

Anyway, Bob, can you perhaps invite Cam into this discussion!!!!

Nedra

[Thomp]

I am truly appricative of every scrap of information i can get that will help me make an informed decision on the purchace of a $9-woodburner or a $130-pyrographic station kit.

i know there is no tempature probe on the units,
the numbers on the dial is all you have to go by as how hot the tip is. except how the tip preforms,...

and buying a tool that preforms too slow is good to learn with but with it being slow progress might slow the operator to where they would rather do anything else than to turn it on again...
its tricky to decide which is going to be a better burner, with no experiance with the equiptment,

maybe i need to look for a used unit so i can share the disappointment of buying the wrong burner with someone else thats wanting to recoop some of their loss..
. maybe it wouldnt hurt as much, if i got it lower price.

to begain with, then i could relate what im hearing with what i am experiancing,

[Phaeton]

Hi Thomp)

what burner we own and the features we like as well as the short commings of particular units, favorite nibs and tips as
there is surely hundreds of them to choose from...

1. whats the best brand for begainers or someone that wants to really get into pyrography.

I'm new at wood burning and can't give advice on other burners but I have a Razertip and it's great. The temperature dial on my burner is from 1 to 10,
shading works well at about 6 and for a deep burn like hair I use 7.5 or less, I've never tried the 10 setting but I'm sure I could start a fire with it.


2.Whats the general concensus on handpieces

I bought a $10 burner and never use it, the handpiece is too fat and the tip is so far from my finger tips that it's awkward to work with (for me anyway).

3. is a fixed tip better than replacable tips? its surely more expencive according to razortip site.

From what I've heard most people only use one or two pens to do everything, now paint brushes are a different story, I have a dozen and use them all..lol

4. whats the best tip for fine detail?

I use the HD14M (round-heel knife) for detail like hair, ears, buttons and button holes because the tip is shaped like a knife blade, you can also get the point up under a hat without burning the hat.

Bill