Question about Copyright Infringements

[louis]

To all,
A great subject so before I run off into the sunset screaming and gibbering my last blurb. As a professional sculptor I have had some of my work copied, but done nothing about it as lawsuits in this country cost a fortune and there is no guarantee that you will win. Also the original will always be the original. Incidently Susan I started carving dragons about a year ago and lo! this Xmas I received the Great Book of Dragons as a present. The cover has inspired me to actually color my latest piece when it is finished as normally we don't paint wood only stain furniture shades of natural woods IE Cherry in this country. I will be going for blue and willsend you a picture. In the meantime from my padded cell gibber gibber
Louis

[Bone Lady]

This has been very interesting. How does a person go about finding an illustrator so you can ask permission? I have been carving/burning a copy of a magazine illustration from 1964, have no intentions of selling it but probably would like to show pics of the finished project. I have tried googling both his name and the magazine but have not gotten very far. Any suggestions how or where to do a proper search. I certainly didn't know what I was getting into here- I just really liked the illustration.

[Claude]

If you don't plan to sell it, or photos of it, I wouldn't worry about it, especially if you can't even find the magazine's web site.

Claude

[Pyrographer]

Originally Posted by Bone Lady

This has been very interesting. How does a person go about finding an illustrator so you can ask permission? I have been carving/burning a copy of a magazine illustration from 1964, have no intentions of selling it but probably would like to show pics of the finished project. I have tried googling both his name and the magazine but have not gotten very far. Any suggestions how or where to do a proper search. I certainly didn't know what I was getting into here- I just really liked the illustration.

Even if the magazine doesn't have a website there is all the contact information in the front of the magazine. If the magazine is no longer being published then I'm not sure how you would go about it. I guess as Claude says don't worry about it. I still wouldn't post it online since it's a copy of someone else's work and you don't have their permission.

Your inability to find the artist to get their permission to use it would be considered a legal argument if the artist ever finds out you used it without his/her permission. I know a lot of carvers and others still do it but it still doesn't make it right which is why there are so many IP lawyers getting rich.

Some artists, photographers, etc are willing to let you copy their work. Some don't have any restrictions, others do, some even charge. I've gotten permission from some painters to use their painting as the basis for a woodburning and gotten it. I had to pay for the use of certain photographs of eagles but it's worth it to me because I do show my work and sometimes sell a piece. I would not want to get caught showing a piece that was copied without having gotten permission to do so. But then I have several lawyers in the family including a nephew who is now an IP attorney and while I've had to use them for my own business I wouldn't want to have to use them to bail me out because I copied someones work without getting their permission. Believe me people do find out. I've had word get back to me several times about people using the content of my books and tutorials for their own websites and tutorials so you just never know who's going to see it and turn around and tell the author, artist, photographer, etc.

With the internet the world is a very small place.

Nedra

[mobjack68]

Originally Posted by windsong

Irish
You got me afraid to put another knife to wood!!!!I wonder if anybody on this site has not falling out side these laws one time or another.I my be better off going back to making and playing flutes.But i may play someone else song.So if i see another persons photo i don't copie it i just carve it from memory i could be in trouble?
windsong

my .02.....start with what you intend to do with your carving/burning, etc....
If your intention is to be the next Tom Clark??? you might need a lot more help than you can get here. If you are using someone's pic from the internet as the basis/idea for your own wood carving???? IF you enter your work in a competition/show??, cite your inspiration!!! (writers use this variant every day!!!) You are NOT copying the photo which is the basis for the copyright.

IF you find a pic that just has to be reproduced by you in your medium??? contact the copyright holder!!!!! ask permission!!! this approach has worked for me in several different ways.....found a video once, copyrighted of course....contacted the actor asked if I could edit out 2 objectionable words to be able to show the video to a younger audience??? He was overjoyed that I was willing to ask permission. He sent me a notarized, mail certified letter granting me permission to edit his video....I included a picture of the letter at the end of the video, gave the original author credit for his work, thanked him for his willingness to allow editing and sent a copy of the video for his approval before I showed it. Makes for great copyright relations.....

Most people I have contacted asking for permission have indicated that I am the first ever to ask permission. One guy asked if I would go ahead with my plans if he denied permission. I told (emailed) him, that I would not move forward with my intentions, I would seek other avenues. He emailed me about a week later and asked if I would send him pics of my work for his records....If I agreed to this, he would email me permission to use his copyrighted work.....

ASK........you just don't know...

[mobjack68]

Sorry about the double post.....
Familiarize yourselves with "creative commons" Creative Commons
or search.creativecommons.org

The Creative Commons concept allows users to post and copy original works for whatever free or limited use the original author decides. If you are looking for pictures look at CC...
Drawings?? sketches??? illustrations??? it's all there....

[ragiarn]

I often use multiple photos to develop my carvings(mostly horses) The pose from one photo, the horses mane from another etc. Most of the photos that I use (from internet) do not have the copyright insignia anywhere to be seen. If a work is copyrighted does the insignia have to visible somewhere on the piece or photo or does there have to be statement somewhere that it is copyrighted? If there is no visibile copyright symbol or statement can I reasonably assume that the subject is not copyrighted?

For example: I carved a copy of Leonardo Davinici's Horse using multiple amateur photos posted online. Leonardo never completed the work however using his original plans replicas of the horse were made and are displayed in many different public places (hence the internet photos). The sculptor who created the replica has a website and has photos of he horse. The photos are copyrighted, which I take to mean that the photos cannot be copied, however I do not think that the sculptor can copyright Leonardo's Horse. The sculptor does state that it is a replica of Leonardo's horse.

When I replicate a carving (Remington, Leonardo Davinici, Marly horse by Guillaume 1677-1746) I always give credit to the original sculptor. None of the aforementioned sculptors have their works copyrighted (in the case of Remington the copyright ran out 30-40 years ago).

[mobjack68]

Originally Posted by ragiarn

I often use multiple photos to develop my carvings(mostly horses) The pose from one photo, the horses mane from another etc. Most of the photos that I use (from internet) do not have the copyright insignia anywhere to be seen. If a work is copyrighted does the insignia have to visible somewhere on the piece or photo or does there have to be statement somewhere that it is copyrighted? If there is no visibile copyright symbol or statement can I reasonably assume that the subject is not copyrighted?
.

ANY work created by you is automatically granted a certain amount of protection. Any picture posted to the internet belongs to the author (as well as any and all protection). Just because a picture does not carry a watermark or an express copyright notice, please don't assume you can do whatever you want to do with it.

The music industry has us all scared to death. I'm not sure they are 100% correct but here is the question that I posed to a copyright specialist (education specific)...
If I OWNED the entire Beach Boys collection on vinyl and the collection burned up in an apartment fire...since I PAID FOR THE MUSIC, do I have the right to legally download what I lost in the fire without paying for it again???? His answer...."do you have the receipts, can you prove you owned the music.....?

As to my previous post....find something you want /need, email the author...
It's sticky, no doubt. I still think the whole thing is wrapped up around intent....
Are you doing woodwork for you or for profit??? 1 or a million??

[ragiarn]

Originally Posted by mobjack68

ANY work created by you is automatically granted a certain amount of protection. Any picture posted to the internet belongs to the author (as well as any and all protection). Just because a picture does not carry a watermark or an express copyright notice, please don't assume you can do whatever you want to do with it.

The music industry has us all scared to death. I'm not sure they are 100% correct but here is the question that I posed to a copyright specialist (education specific)...
If I OWNED the entire Beach Boys collection on vinyl and the collection burned up in an apartment fire...since I PAID FOR THE MUSIC, do I have the right to legally download what I lost in the fire without paying for it again???? His answer...."do you have the receipts, can you prove you owned the music.....?

As to my previous post....find something you want /need, email the author...
It's sticky, no doubt. I still think the whole thing is wrapped up around intent....
Are you doing woodwork for you or for profit??? 1 or a million??

Thanks for your input. There are still a lot of concerns I have. Many of the photos obtained through Bing or Google have no identifiable author.
In the case of Davinici's horse it is not clear if the photos of the horse are copyrighted or the actual sculpture is copyrighted.

All of my work is done for personal use- when I present it at carving shows I identify the original sculptor (Davinci, Remington, Guillaume). Of course it goes without saying that while I try to carve horses based on the original I am in no way skilled enough to duplicate the originals. No one would mistake my carvings for a Remington or Davinci.

[mobjack68]

Okay...I think I have it....not my definition about our dilemma, but this seems to pretty much cover it. See what you think....(Thomas Schwartz/patent attorney)
I asked specifically about reproducing a picture taken by someone other than me, into a wood carving/sculpture...and also using pictures as reference for other details. I think Mr Schwartz has summed it up for us.....

One of the rights granted to a copyright owner is the exclusive right to make so called "derivative works" based on the original work. A "derivative work" is defined in the copyright law - 17 United States Code § 101 (scroll down) as follows:

A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a “derivative work”.

Notice the language "art reproduction." A carving of an existing photograph would be considered an "art reproduction", and thus, a "derivative work."

So, there would be a problem if a carving was made of a whole photograph.

You present a little different situation however. If I understand you correctly, you are not carving the whole photograph, but only limited portions of it.

The copyright law also contains a doctrine called "fair use" ( 17 United States Code § 107 ) which allows limited copying for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research.

Your copying limited portions of photographs probably falls within this fair use doctrine. I think you would be safe so long as your carvings do not call to mind the entirety of the original photograph. It is not as if you are trying to duplicate the photograph. You are just using limited portions of the photograph to see where certain lines are.

While it is my opinion that permission is not needed under the circumstances you describe, to be extra safe it is always advisable to seek permission to remove any doubt.

Thomas