[Irish]

OK ... I'll really throw a wrench into the works here. In carving and wood burning if you are using a pattern or rough out that you purchased from another artist you are into a totally different area called "Intended Use" and having to do with Limited Licensing ... AHHHH!

"Intended Use" simply means that the very act of selling patterns or rough outs is so that the purchaser can carve or wood burn them ... DAH! So as a pattern maker I can not come back and scream "you are showing a burning of one of my patterns" because that is exactly why I sold you the pattern in the first place! So you are doing exactly what I said you could do by using the pattern or cutting the rough out.

My Copyright Statement has a further "Intended Use" clause that the patterns are created for use by hobbyists and craftsmen not mass manufacturing. Which means that once you purchase "the right to use" one of my designs you get to carve your heart out and sell what you carve. You don't get to set up a duplicating machine off one of those carvings and crank out the carving by the hundreds ... that requires a mass production licensing agreement.

If you buy a rough out you are still into "Intended Use" as that piece of wood was sold with the full intention that it be carved. You can alter that rough out to your heart's content and not be in any trouble.

You can't buy the rough out and then make duplicates of it for either free or paid distribution nor can you purchase a pattern and then sell that pattern as a pattern for other craftsmen to use. Because both of these were Intended to be use" to create a new finished piece of art not to be distributed as parts or pieces for another person to use to create that art. That last situation gets you into Third Party Licensing and lots of trouble.

Really confused now Let me muddy the water just a little more.

Do you realize that you really don't own a book, magazine, craft pattern or instructions!!!!! Nope, ya don't! What you own - what you purchased - was a limited license of Usage. Meaning that you get to Use the book by reading it but you can't post the text or pictures as if they belonged to you. You get to USE the patterns but can not go to the photo copier and make copies to use in your classes or give away to your friends.

Copyright, Intended Usage and Limited Licenses all come down to don't use someone else's original art as if it were yours unless you have their release in writing or unless you have a printed copy of a Public Domain Release.

Last one ... I promise ... there is also Implied Intended Usage! If you publish your finished carvings in a DIY hobbyist magazine or on a DIY hobbyist website as this one you may fall under Implied Intended Use. So if I show a wood burning as my little Christmas Lamb here on the forum I am doing so on a website that sponsors hobbyists to do new carvings and burnings, this site is a learning resource. With my posting that image I am doing so with the knowledge that other members may or will copy it ... DAH!!!! Whether or not I post the actual pattern along with the carving or burning - learning, tutorials and hobby carvings/burnings is the intended purpose of the site I can not come back and scream because someone posts a copy of the lamb saying "hey gang see my version of Sue's lamb!" I can come in and post "Great job, love the burning!"

So when you go to publish your work in any DIY or Teaching Resource type media if you don't want anyone to copy it you probably need to post that disclaimer in bold lettering right along with the image.

S.

[pallin]

I would like to weigh-in with a different viewpoint. In practice, copyright laws are not as tight as one might imagine.
As some of you know, I have done relief carvings for many years based on the graphic designs of M. C. Escher. Some of these are translations or variations on the original designs. Even my logo is a piece of "Sky & Water I." Photos of these have been posted on this site and several other internet sites. I recently had a public exhibition of eleven of my Escher-based carvings. I have never been contacted by the copyright holders of the Escher designs.
I suggest you also check the following link: www.im-possible.info/english/

[LA.DUSTY]

Susan, Phil, thank you very much for your time and input.
Susan, your explanation makes it clear. I think that this post is discussing some very important issues which some of us are not very familiar with - and it is better to know than to be sorry.
Thanks to everybody who let us share your knowledge.
LA. Dusty

[dhowell9000]

What if you take a photo of a well known place, like the grand canyon, and decide to wood burn it as well, Lots of people take pictures and many may look similar, so how can someone sue you if it looks like thier picture? same with dogs that look alike, pure bred dogs of course look similar, so how does that work?? This is a confusing subject. I also have a program called art explosion 600,000 and it said copyright free, but you cant reproduce the "software" and sell it, so can I use what is in the software??
thanks.
Dawn

[dhowell9000]

I also forgot to ask, if I buy a book of patterns, can i burn or carve those and sell them? or is that bad too? I thought thats what alot of people do... I am glad this post is here, I never heard of most of this. My sister recently went to a wax museum in new york and they do famous people, and someone asked if they had to get permission from the person, the answer was no because it was art and it was thier depiction or version of such person that thats what art is and permission was not needed... I guess thats why I am so confused...
Dawn

[Irish]

OK ... Just want to say again that I am not a copyright lawyer ...

We are so attuned to the idea of 'owning things' - to buy and therefore own an object or tangible item. But copyright really has little to do with tangibles! It has to do with usage and distribution.

So, you go to Staples and buy a piece of clip art software that has 600,000 copyright free images on it. You own or purchased one hard copy of the software which includes a cardboard box, several CDs and maybe an instruction booklet plus a bunch of plastic wrapping that you can not possible open without a machete and will throw away once you have mangled your way through it to get to the software.

So in your hands you have/own one piece of cardboard, several plastic-something flat round disks and about 1/4" of stacked stapled paper ... and that plastic wrap stuff.

On those plastic-something disks (CDs) there is digital information that does two actions when accessed by your computer. The first action is the program itself that opens a pretty little work window and let's you copy-paste-resize and even save to your hard drive. The second action is a library of digital images - the 600,000 copyright free thingies.

Where you do own those two or three plastic disks you do not own the information contained on those disks ... you didn't really BUY and therefore OWN the digital program or the digital images on those disks. What you did buy was the "Right to Use" that program in your computer and the "Right to Use" those images in OTHER works that you create.

The software (the program coding) is copyrighted, can not be copied and sure can not be distributed. Remember that pop up window that has the Click Licensing Agreement on it? That's the fine print contract that you agreed to when you installed the program on your computer. So you can not put those CDs into your CD Burner and crank out copies of everything to give away to your family and friends or sell on EBay.

I have Adobe Photoshop CS (a graphics image editing program) on my system. I paid for it and it cost dearly. But I do not have nor did I purchase the right to make copies of Adobe CS to give away or sell them as if I owned Adobe CS ... I purchased the right to USE Adobe CS to create my images of my carvings and burnings.

The images on your 600,000 copyright free disks are also copyrighted and can not be distributed.

OK, Susan, now you have lost me because the packaging said they were Copyright Free ????

Those images on the disk are digital information saved under one or several digital formats. You can't burn copies of those images to another CD and give or sell them to family and friends because the software company owns the copyright.

OK, gal, what the whositis did I pay $29.95 for in the first place ???? What you bought, what you paid for, was the Right to Use those images. You purchased the rights to print copies of those images, trace them to your birch plywood and burn them into beautiful finished creations. You purchased the right to incorporate them into your website home page logo and as little "click here" buttons. You purchased the right to add them to your letterhead or your invoices as little decorations.

So in the end your $29.95 got you some cardboard, plastic disks, an instruction booklet and the right to use their programing, right to access the image library and the right to wood burn 600,000 wonderful little ideas and designs.

It's the same with books ... you purchased for $19.95 a stack of paper glued together and the right to read everything inside that book, the right to put that new learning to use and even the right to make a few copies (check the opening paper for how many) to use in the execution of your new learned craft. You did not buy the right to slap that book down on a copier, crank out 20 copies of the step-by-step and take those copies to your club as give-aways.

When anyone is discussing Copyright please think in the term USE not OWN.

Let's go back to my limited edition prints. If you buy a print from me you own the piece of paper (and it's really good paper ) with a pretty picture on it. You can frame that one picture, you can resell that one picture, you can hang that print in your living room or backyard one holer outhouse, you can even glue that picture to the center of your favorite dart board and punch holes in it with little pointy thingies ... but you can't take that picture to Ginkgo's and have 500 copies made of it and sell those copies on Ebay even if you made the copies into key fob size or bookmark size ... because I own the rights to distribution to my painting you don't.

S.

[Irish]

Lots of people take pictures and many may look similar, so how can someone sue you if it looks like their picture? same with dogs that look alike, pure bred dogs of course look similar, so how does that work?

Yes, a lot of photos look alike - even though the Grand Canyon is miles wide there are only so many places you can take photos so everyone's photos look alike. If you stood on one of those parapets, got out your camera and snapped the photo that image on the photo paper belongs to you and is copyrightable by you and only you. (Some restrictions may apply if the photo was taken in a privately owned area or of a living person.)

But let's look for a moment at one of Ansel Adams' wonderful photos of an old stucco church that has wonderful dark shadows that set off the church bell. It's a famous photo which I expect most people have seen at least once in their lives.

Adams' photo was taken at a certain time of day - that's what creates the dark shadows. His photo was taken at a particular angle - that's why we see up into the bell tower area. He also chose a certain spot in the court yard to set his camera - that is what gives the perspective of his photo.

You can not use an Ansel Adams photo without written permission ... he owns the copyright to that image. Not to the church, not to the time of day and not to the position of the sun but to the composition of the artwork.

Now let's say you have the chance to go to the southwest, visit that church and take photos of your own. You stand in the courtyard an snap your little heart out ... you are probably not in any fashion in violation of Adams copyright because that church is a public place and you are taking your own photos.

B.U.T. - Behold the Ultimate Truth!

If you carefully chose to take the photo at the same time of day as Adams did so you get his dark shadows - if you carefully position your camera as he did to get his persecutive - if you make the decision to set your camera in the same foot print that he set his - if you chose to print that photo in black and white just like Adams did instead of color ... well, guess who's photo your are copying ... DAH!

You are COPYING his subject, his lighting, his setting, his position and his printing process ... and that's where his representatives could take you to court. They would put your photo next to Adams and tell the jury, "See he/she carefully chose the same subject, same time of day, same shadows, same position, same perspective and printed in the same way as Adams.

If would not matter a touch that you used your camera and you pushed the camera button ... the jury would know, the judge would know, the lawyers would know and you and I know that what you were doing was creating a copy of Adams work.

Now, lets go back to that southwest church with your camera but with the idea of "how would I take a photo of that church bell?" Right away you are out from under copyright constraints because you are working as an original artist not as a copier. Maybe you want the setting sun to fill the image so that you can barely see the bell - maybe you want to focus the camera not on the shadows but instead on the texture of the stucco wall - and maybe some little child has wandered into the frame looking up in wonder ... quick snap the picture!

You just created an original work with original ideas even though it's in a famous setting. But before you pack up your camera gear get the kid's Mom to sign a release that you can publish that photo that includes her child's image ...

Now ... PLEASE ... don't get me started on pure bred dog owners! I love 'em. I have worked with them for over 20 years and they are my customers ... BUT!

They can not only identify their dogs from other breeder's dog in a painting or photo they can put names and dates to those dogs, especially if that dog (the one in your painting) beat out their dog ... AHHH!

One of the biggest mistakes a new canine print artist can make is to go to press with a 'pet portrait' of someone's champion show dog thinking it will sell millions. Just as soon as we post that print to our dog art site we will be bombed with "I don't want Double Dutch Chocolate's sired by Dark Chocolate Sunday out of Chocolate's Candy Kisses portrait in MY house ... geez ... I can hear them screaming at me in my head ...

These people compete against those other dogs and what makes one a champion and the other an Also Ran are very minute details and they know every little one.

Do you want your next door neighbor's daughter's picture sitting on YOUR piano especially when she took first place in the Spelling Bee and your daughter came in second or do you want a cute unidentifiable child in a cute setting there .... ?

S.

[Mottles]

Hi Susan, thank you for taking the time to comment and give personal experience and knowledge on this subject. It's such a huge, huge area of law and creates lawyers, who do only copy write law.
Kathy

[Pyrographer]

Great information.
Nedra

[windsong]

Irish
You got me afraid to put another knife to wood!!!!I wonder if anybody on this site has not falling out side these laws one time or another.I my be better off going back to making and playing flutes.But i may play someone else song.So if i see another persons photo i don't copie it i just carve it from memory i could be in trouble?
windsong