[Paul_Guraedy]

I agree with the post by missioni in the thread "spoiled by basswood!" We woodcarvers are capable of creating art. But, the art that is created is too often reduced to craft by we practitioners.

It seems almost impossible for woodcarvers to enjoy a carving for the beauty of the finished product. It is far more important that it be carved from only one piece of wood, carved only with hand tools, have all of the correct number of tail feathers showing in a bird to be judged in the realistic category so that everyone is aware that the carver had this knowledge, carved without sanding, all portions of the carving must be carved rather than have some artificial object as part of the scene, a carving is apparently better if carved from some woods rather than others, painted rather than unpainted and at a recent show I even heard the demand that all carvings must be firmly attached to the base. Why, is the esteem given to a carving directly related to the difficulty of workmanship rather than the artistic quality of the piece?

Are the carvings on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel greater art because the artist was in a difficult position while painting? I don't know what makes the statue of David art. But, I do know that it is. I also know that it is not dependant simply upon the artist's ability to render a realistic figure out of plain vanilla marble.

Let's talk to one another about the technicalities of carving one wood rather than another or even the fact that a particular piece might be better carved from tupelo rather than basswood; walnut rather than butternut. But, let's realize that it is the finished product that is the final judge and, unless we are truly carving only for ourselves, it is the pleasure or appreciation of the viewer that determines success or failure.

[Colin_Partridge]

Paul, I couldnt agree more. I dont think it matters with what or how you get to the finished product if its appealing to you and other people then thats all that counts I have had people tell me that because I use a chainsaw to start my carvings that is cheating. Hell who cares what you use dont they think that the great sculptors wouldnt have used power tools if they had them. I know my native carving friends all now use chainsaws to get where they are going. They all say the same thing if their ansestors had chainsaws and power tools they would have used them.
For that very reason I dont enter carving competitions because there are too many rules. It like figure skating, it depends on who you are as to what marks you will recieve. You make a good point and one that makes a lot of good sence.So if you like bass wood and I like cedar then thats just the way it is, its just a matter of preference.
Colin

[Smokey]

Paul you have taken an outstanding posture. Great comments.

I also dont enter competition, because of all of the rules and comments. I had one person state that I was "cheating" when I used a Foredom to rough cut a carving---BS.

I wonder if UGG , the first caveman, to use a flint tool to cut a piece of meat, got the same statements from those that were chewing it directly from the animal? Yet we have evolved.

[Hugh]

Paul, Just had to respond to this thread. Most of the bird carving that I really like, ( I don't mean technically correct), are representations of the carver. On my desk is a piture of a carving of a BlueJay, beautifully done, soft, with a character showing in every aspect, the attitude, the colours, every thing about it keeps me looking at it. To strive for accuracy is OK, but to try and illustrate the beauty of nature, is something to strive for. My good friend Milford Hopkins, does this with a flare. If you knew Milford, his fancy duck carvings, speak louder than words. The man shows through his work. A free spirit.

[squbrigg]

Splendid discussion folks. May as well offer another opinion.

This "competative" aspect of carving is what really turns me off! I dropped out of a ship modellers forum lately over this very thing. The group was so focused on their idea of "perfection", they were losing sight of the reason (my reason anyway) for doing it. The pure love and passion for ships and the sea. Be it perfection in feathering or perfection in materials used to build a ship, perfection is an illusion! Birds are seldom perfect, they are missing feathers, the wind ruffles them, they get a few shot off.........and so with ships, they weather, things break and are repaired, they rot, they were seldom built exactly to the builders plan.....nothing is perfect!!! Who cares if it's Basswood, or Butternut, or Tupelo or a handy piece of Spruce. Some woods carve better than others, or have a different character......but what matters is that you are carving, creating and enjoying the feeling of expressing your love for the subject through your efforts.
Bugger the competitions, I'll carve what I like, how I like, using what tools I like and if someone doesn't like what I do, they can always look at someone elses efforts, or better yet....do it better themselves. Sorry, but I'd rather encourage a carver than criticize their work. I don't profess to know doodlie squat about "art"....I just know what I like and admire, good skill and artistic ability.

Bob

[rgbonehead]

I don't know where this idea came from,That you have to use only hand tools.I will use a chainsaw,an angle grinder or any
other means to get down to the fun stuff carving.
Yes there are far too many rules in competition.I don't know
the numbskull's that come up with this crap but all they do
is choke the real artistry.I carve what I want when I want
and the way I want and I don't care what anyone has to say.
Ron

[Hugh]

Me again, great topic. you all get my vote, couldn't agree more.

[Irish]

" We woodcarvers are capable of creating art. But, the art that is created is too often reduced to craft by we practitioners. "

In my opinion ... There are aspects to the creation and execution of any art that go far beyond the technical process.

Creativity - Can you make your art into something unique and different from everyone else's art? Carvity_Carve (Sabrina) just posted a wonderful example of this when she took the idea of the oak leaf greenman and in a wonderous moment of creativity made him into a FernMan!

Exerimentation - Are you willing to take a new idea, a new way of doing something and give it a try? LightningBolt (Dave) just worked through a great tenon and mortise joint for a walking stick to discover if he could use this new idea in his own work.

Courage - Are you willing to go out on that limb and do something you have never done before? It was Squbrigg (Bob) that has recently shared this aspect by going from relief carving sailing ships to a show stopper of a dragon cane.

Sharing - After you have tried that something that has not been done before, gone with a new approach, taken the risk by trying something new, are you willing to share what you learned along the way? Hugh has a great example of the sharing of ideas and expertise with his Saw-Whet Owl photo tutorial that he posted here. Colin is doing that right now with those Pine Wood Spirits carving.

Creativity, Experimentation, Courage, and Sharing can't be catagorized at a Carving Show! If you are the judge of the show, looking at a finished work, you can't see the strokes that make the new ideas vs. the already tried and true. You can't find the sweaty oil from the carver's hand because he/she was getting just a touch nervous from trying something different vs the tung oil. No where on the show floor will you find the trash can that holds all the earlier tries that just went dead wrong but the carver kept on going with determination to figure 'this' out. And ... there are no written instructions, e-mails, or photos next to the carving that display the 'come and join me in the fun' sharing!

But in true ART has all of these aspects are incorporated into the final finished piece. If a carver doesn't have these aspects then the only things that they have to bring to their carving is methods and materials. So what carving tool they used or what piece of wood is correct or exact measurements become the focus.

Now, In My Humble Opinion, which you know by now is neither humble and can be given away by me without written notice ... All of you are in a Great Carving Competition right here, right now, on this forum! Everyone of us are putting both our art and ourselves out there to be judged by the other members of WCI Forum.

And as the current judge (because I'm the one posting right now), everyone one of you are First Class Show Stopping Grand Champions because everyone of you are showing your creativity, experimentation, courage, and then coming here sharing it with the rest of us.

Just my thoughts.

Susan

[BobD]

I just wish I had time to post--you've all beaten me to the punch. All I can say is that I've been inspired over and over by this forum!


Bob

[Irish]

BobD,

Has Alan got your shoulder to the wheel and your nose to the grind stone???

Miss ya posting!

Susan