[wade clark]

Mark,
Can you get wood of more than a few inches thickness that is kiln dried, or do you have to glue up blocks to carve larger objects/sculptures? I've heard that wood of several inches thickness can't be very successfully kiln dried. Would you agree? I've also heard that kiln dried wood will adjust fairly quickly to your local humidity; will it be prone to warping or checking as it sucks in the moisture? Please, let us know how you do it. I know this is a very serious issue when doing larger carvings. Chris Pye told me, via email, that he has never carved green wood and can't imagine taking those kinds of risks. I've been told by fullcycle.com who supplies basswood to Dollywood's woodcarvers that those carvers only carve glued-up blocks, many of which fullcycle glues up.
It's just hard to imagine every sizeable carving from a glued up block.
Please let us know your thoughts.
Thanks!
Wade

[mark yundt]

The only advice I can give is from my own experience and Wade you are correct in my estimation on every account. When I first started I was able to get bass from a local mill ,reasonable price,and well seasoned( take it from this stack it's 5 yrs old,that stack is only 2) I'd make a cutout, start to carve, and low and behold within days I'd start to see very fine,hairline cracks. to other carvers ,reading articles,seasoning cannot and will not give you the same product as PROPERLY kiln dried wood.Side note, about 10 yrs ago the rules for commercial grade kiln dried lumber changed. Used to be 6-8% now it's max is 12. Ever notice how that 2x4, looks straight in the store,but give it a coupla ' days and it looks like a barrel stave?And that's after kiln drying..Sometimes the stuff even feels damp! Real lumber mills supplying quality wood are usually 6-8, stick a moisture meter in it to be sure,,they will do it for you if you ask.Anyway,from several articles I've read, wood , and it's cells are pretty much like a sponge. It absorbs and gives off moisture,yeah, we all know that.But what happens, from my understanding, is that when properly kiln dried, the moisture can be driven off in a controlled rate,allowing the cells to "collapse", held there for a time,then allowed to cool.This hardening of the cells helps control future absorption of moisture,,,doesn't stop it,,just slows it a bit 'cause they cant expand and contract like they used to ,,the heat does it.I live in an old house, been here 30 yrs,,house was at least 45 when I moved in. You would think the interior doors would be well "seasoned" , 75 yrs later, and sealed on all 6 sides and in a relatively temperature controlled environment,right? Well summer (damp/humid) they stick,winter(heat/dry) they're fine..well seasoned eh?I find it pretty hard to imagine that stickered wood,with ventilation,after rainy springs,hot summers,cool damp autumns, cold moist winters,,even under the best conditions would give up the moisture that a 150 degree kiln, for several days could do .( a friend had a kiln,, would hold only about a flatbed ,with oak, a river of water would run out for a few days.EPA said no way,,tannins in the local streams)And thickness. Each wood has it's limits,bass can push about the max to 6" (tupelo is a beast unto it's own)most though are in the range of 8,10,maybe 12 quarter safely, after that they get squirrely.I'd be willing to bet, there are few chainsaw carvers who never had a piece show any indications of a split,,however fine in a nice dead old seasoned log.Part of the problem is because of the thickness of the wood ( and drying it) and controling it's movement. I had the opportunity to work on a 10'high x3'wide, figure head, carved by William Rush,from a China trader,done out of one solid piece of pine. The Smithsonian Institute was even called in to take core samples and date it, also narrowed the trees origin to a 50 mile radius,,, cool huh?The back was hollowed,an old practice to help control splitting,,but it did,, all over the place. Look at any old massive carving,,they're all cracked,here, europe, everywhere I look that's what I see.They didn't have the tools in some cases , nor glues (hide glue only went so far) to glue up big pieces.We do.which brings me to your question of gluing up big blocks for bigger pieces.Ian is able to get linden infairly decent size pieces( lucky stiff) but they are still relatively small,6-8" thick,width and length vary.To do something like the full size crucifix,large statues,corbels,brackets etc. I have to glue them up, it's the only way I can control the movement,get the size,and eliminate the excess waste by contouring the blanks to the final shape I need.The oldest large piece I have out there still shows no signs of cracks to this day.A friend of mine, glued up I don't know how many blocks of bass to do an eagle , in flight,catching a salmon,that was 5 1/2 ft tall,4 1/2 ft wide,( the whole sculpture was this big, not the salmon LOL) So yes Wade,,big block are the only way to go,, and it's done regularly.OOPS,, forgot to scan pics,, I'll get them, for now,,look at the capitals I sent in,,,they were 30 inches square, 24" high,, all glued up bass,( small by some comparisons) I know I have others but I'll put more up for you to see the glue ups. Finally, Green wood,,,NO WAY,seasoned wood, NO WAY,for what my clients are paying , I can't even consider,even if it's for free, using anything other than the wood I use,, even that scares me.

[mark yundt]

O.K., here you'll see some glued up blocks and the finished piece.The Mahogany lion I did with a friend for a job he had,,so it's not all mine,we did 2 of them,point is,, it's a glued up block, 6 ft tall,2 1/2 ft wide,2 ft thick. The small saintly looking one is 19 pcs of poplar, finished shots in the gallery,the other, Divine Mercy,,if I remember,about 8 pcs. wide, arms and hands separate glued up blocks.

[mark yundt]

and these are the glued up blocks for the Shroud job,,the one shot shows him on his side, while being glued up,you see the back, head to the right , legs and feet to the left, and the other is an overall shot,looking from his head to the feet.You can see the finished piece on my website.

Hah! didn't plan it,, but that's a glued up fireplace in the back.Geez,,where did all the words come from,, guess that's the last time you'll ask me anything,LOL,,LOL,,,HOOO BOY!I do have one more good example,,but I think you're probably tired of me by now,,if you want I'll P.M. you Wade

[Just Carving]

Mark,

Since you're showing the glue-ups, I have a question. I glue-up 3/4" boards to make blocks--say 3X3, 4x4, 5X5, etc. (Because I have a bunch of small 3/4"-1" thick boards laying around--my way of cleaning out the wood stack) Anyway, the first time I did it, I clamped 4 boards together, and they were slipping and sliding every which way. So, now, when I glue-up I clamp two boards, and let it sit overnight. Then add on one--let it sit overnight, etc. You've got a whole slew of boards glued and clamped and I imagine you got them pretty much where you wanted. Is the way you did it the better way to go, and make sure you account for the boards slipping around, i.e. add in an extra inch of wood all around to allow for error? Or, is my way acceptable since I have plenty of time?

[wade clark]

Mark,
You've convinced me, but NOW I/we want to know more! What kind of glues do you find to be the best, ditto on Bob's question about stacking or doing 2 at a time, do you think a large press would work better than clamps, do you lay the grain all the same direction or vary it? How do you deal with/anticipate the changes caused by humidity, just like your door? Give me a minute and I'll have 10 more questions!
To my limited knowledge, there's not a book out there on glue-up tecniques for wood carvers. Why not do a tutorial on here on the subject, and talk with Fox Chappel about publishing a book.
We're all thirsty for wisdom from the few who are masters of carving, so please don't hold back the words or pictures!
Wade
p.s. got the p.m. Thanks!

[Kenny_S]

Since the cells or fibers colapses, kiln dried wood is harder than Air dried.
I have to agree that kiln dried wood has been dried in a control environment whereas most air dry wood hasn't.

[mark yundt]

Yes,I do it just like you explain, I start from the middle boards and move out, adding one to each side as I go.I only use Titebond glue,and you don't need as much as some people think , here, more isn't better, can weaken the joint. Also just the right amount of glue helps limit the boards slipping around.First , apply glue, take off excess,put the boards together,slide them back and forth a bit and you'll feel them start to stick.Start either from the middle and work out or one endto the other.If you're getting alot of movement,reset you clamps so the tension doesnt' cause th boards to shift.Shifting tells you the tension isn't straight down but at different angles.You can also compensate for some clamps by aligning the boards slightly askew so when you do clamp the boards actually align.Also you can put a couple of clamps,with a couple of pieces of flat stock under the pads on the clamps that will keep the edges aligned till the total clamp up is done.With some clamps, the twisting action of tightening them, or , some flex when tightened or the're just out of parallel,causes you to have clamps that don't look like they're straight up and down,, they're at odd angles,,that's O.K. you just have to compensate for some clamps.Adding more wood is never an error.Gluing up a block and not having enough is an error LOL,, We can always cut off too much wood!This is just what works for me and my friends,,whatever way works for you ,, and you're happy with the results,,do that.The other benefit of doing one at a time is also any flex or curve is easier to allow for only adding one board at a time. I'd rather flex one board with decent pressure than try to flex a stack of say 5 boards at one time,All going their own direction,putting up a fight. If you have a massive block of 4 solidly glued up boards and are adding one to it,,who will bend to who's will,,the single board looses every time.

[wade clark]

Mark,
Do you glue it right out of the kiln, or do you have stacks you pick from, previously kiln dried? Do you plane before or after kiln drying? Do you pay particular attention to the grain as you glue up?
How do you like poplar? The local Amish sawmill I buy from was sawing a poplar log when I was there...the colors were wild! Purples, yellows and greens. I especially like sycamore for it's patterns, colors and flecking. Do you carve at all in harder woods like oak, walnut or maple?
Wade

[slivers&dust]

Ditto what Wade said. "We're all thirsty for wisdom from the few who are masters of carving, so please don't hold back the words or pictures!"

I'd love to follow you around for a week... or two...just watching you work but I can't...but this is close keep it coming.

thanks Mark