Sharpening of a V-gouge

[makenchips]

I am in need of some help here. I was trying to sharpen a v-gouge last night and I think I did more harm than good. I was following along with Rick Butz book on sharpening and something must have went wrong because the gouge is less sharp now than when I started.

My first question is this. In his book he suggests treating each side of the 'V' as a seperate chisel edge. So that is what I did, but he suggest going back and forth until an edge is formed and then do the other side the same way. I thought that you were supposed to only go in one direction when sharpening?

My second question is where the sides of the V come together. I tried to do the rocking back and forth of the gouge to get rid of the excess metal that was sticking out but the only thing I managed to do was screw up the sides of the V-gouge. Is there a steeper angle that should be used?

And my third question is that I am using a DMT diamond sharpener with the holes in it. This is very hard to use with the small gouges that I am using. Should I switch to a Arkansas or India stone? Does it even matter?

Help! I am getting very frustrated with this sharpening stuff. I seem to be doing more harm than good. Any suggestions would be welcome.

First, I also treat each side of the V as a seperate chisel edge but also create a small 'third bevel' at the bottom of the V by holding the gouge at the same angle with the V up.
I only sharpen in one direction as though trying to take a thin shaving off the stone.

As to the diamond sharpener, I haven't used one so can't say whether it is part of the problem but I use a hard arkansas stone without any oil for all my sharpening and have no complaints.

Also remember that a wire edge will cut great for a short time but can leave the edge dull after it breaks off. You should take a piece of leather and strop the inside of your V and U gouges the same as you would the flat side of a chisel. You might also want to buy a slipstone for the insides of your gouges.

Good sharpening techniques take time and practice to develope so don't give up. If nothing else buy a cheap carving tool set from Hobby Lobby and practice sharpening them. That way if you 'ruin' one it hasn't cost you much.

Good whittlin, Cliff
Charles City, Iowa
http://cliffordparker.tripod.com

Your technique is correct, your stone is not a good choice for the job. I would recommend you go with the arkansas (pronounced R-Kansas by the hillfolk).
If you have ever used oil on the arkansas stone, you will need to continue to use it. If you haven't, you can use it without oil and clean it with an eraser.

The real trick to sharpening V tools is getting the two sides and the curved apex to come together (sharp) at the same time.

Two words: Magnification and Practice

I only use leather strops so far. I was told that the bevels for V gouges are set acording to the type or hardnes of the wood you are using. Less for softer and more for harder as it could break the edge down faster. Corect me if backwards. I try to strop an equal number of times on each side so they stay aligned.

[AlArchie]

OK, I'll add another tool to the help list. Â*I just picked up a Henry Taylor maccaroni tool, (I can't seem to do the maccarina either) and like some other Taylor tools it does not have a polished edge(s). Â*There is a minor relief on the vertical cutting edges and I was wondering if I need to maintain this relief, or if that was just a mistake in initial grinding. Â*By the way, I am quite pleased with the other Taylor tools I have, it's just that they do require a final honing before use. Â*

Al

[woodenleg]

I'm sure I could be helpful if I could tell you all the good stuff I have read in books. I do have one helpful hint: if all else fails, send it in to Woodcraft who will sharpen it for $3.00. :'(

I have one of the DMT diamonds to which you refer and love it! However, I do not use it for very small V-tools.

I have had several gouges, that I could not sharpen, which I was eventually able to get a good edge on. The problem I had with those is that the edge was NOT STRAIGHT. What I eventually had to do was to stand the tool up on its sharp end -- on my diamond stone -- and work it back and forth until it was straight. Once I did that, I was able to sharpen it within seconds. Sounds contradictary, but I had read about it many times in books but was afraid to try it.

The other thing I have found is that some of the stones are not fine enough to go to a strop. Therefore, I bought two ceramic stones: one is fine and the other is very fine (these are the two small stones advertised as Wayne Barton's stones). On the occasions when a strop is not sufficient, I use those stones and they put a marvelous edge on the tools. No water or oil is used with them and you clean them with dishwasher detergent. Then use the strop.

I have some very small ceramic stones with very sharp edges on them for getting down into the inside 'V' once the edges are sharp. Then, I use the flat side of the same stone for the rest of the inside of the tool.

If this is reply too long, remember I gave you the answer in paragraph one. Once they sharpen it for you, you will be able to keep it sharp if you use your strop frequently. Incidentally, I always use the strop as the last step in the process of sharpening.

[makenchips]

Thank you one and all for your help so far. Â*Last night I did what woodenleg mentioned in his post and stood the gouge straight up and down and worked it back and forth to even out the two sides. Â*I had read in Ricks book that they should be even but I don't remember it ever being that way since I bought the darn thing. Â*Should have bought the book first to know what to look for before I purchased the gouge. Â*I still need to do a little more to even them out before I retry to do the sides. Â*I must say that it was very tough for me to stand up the gouge on the sharpener and grind away what was left of the edge of my v-tool but I could not see any other way to even the sides out. Â*I will keep you posted as to how it turns out. Â*
Thanks again for your input and if anybody else has any suggestions on sharpening V-tools, vieners, knifes or anything else I am open for suggestions. Â*This has been a big eye opener to me as I progress. Don't get me wrong though I am loving it even more as I learn. Â*I now have a greater appreciation to all those who do and have forged and sharpened steel into cutlery of any kind. Â*

[makenchips]

Hey its me again. Â*I was thinking about what people have said about using a different stone to sharpen my smaller knives and gouges and was wondering what is the best way to go. Â*Many have mentioned Arkansas stones and others have said Ceramic. Â*I am new to this and don't want to have to keep purchasing sharpening stones. Â*I thought that with the DMT(which I was told was the best by the store where I purchased it from) I could sharpen any of my knives and gouges. Â*What is the general consensus? Â*Arkansas stones and in what flavors or something else? Â*Or maybe just keep using what I have and make do. Â*Still confused. Â*???:-[ :-/ ???

There's no way I'm gonna stick my foot in my mouth and say that this is best, but it's what has worked for me for a lot of years. I use two Arkansas stones, a soft & a hard. The soft is for the rougher work and the hard for final touches before stropping. I've tried ceramic, but it doesn't have the feel of the Arkansas stones. Once you've done it enough you can actually feel when the tool is as good as that particular stone is going to get it and it's time to move on. It kind of loses it raspy feeling and gets more of a slippery feeling. For the stage your V-tool is at right now your going to want a pretty rought stone. One out of the kitchen drower will work. Your diamond dealy might also, but those holes scare me. When you shaping the V don't forget that the wings of the V need to be leading the bottom or it's not going to cut right. Once you get it shaped correctly move on to a finer shapening device (ceramic, arkansas, other diamond without holes, whatever you choose). Hope that made some kind of sense.

[makenchips]

Woo there FatEddy what do you mean by 'the wings of the V need to be leading the bottom. Are you saying that if you look at the V-gouge from the side that the wings are more forward than the intersection point? I thought that if you treat each side as a seperate chisel, if you will, then when looking at it from the side it would still be perpindicular down to the intersection.