Knives or chisels for sign carving?

[Just Carving]

I am thinking of buying some basic carving tools, i.e. chisels, gouges, fishtail tools, etc. for carving novelty signs for inside display. I could use some input from the "Masters of Carving"--sounds better than the "forum users"!

Right now, I am using a bench knife, and some home-made knives--basically hardened steel putty knives that I cut and sharpened. One knife is 1" wide with a straight edge on a 35-degree angle with a double bevel for straight cuts, and the other is 1" wide with a curved edge with a double bevel for curved cuts. They are doing a good job and they hold their edge with a honing here and there as is needed with any knives. I am considering using a straight chisel, a v-tool, a gouge, a fishtail chisel and a skew knife. I am interested in reducing the amount of carving marks in my work. Another thought is that I am carving incised letters right now. I would like to start carving raised letters where I would be removing the wood from around the letters rather than carving the letters out of the wood. I lean towards carving Pine as opposed to other woods. I would like to carve more in Basswood but Pine is more readily available here.

So far, I am favoring the fat stubby handled Ramelson tools. I prefer fat short handles because my hands are skinny-fingered baseball mitts, and my cutting strokes tend to be heavy handed for which the tools will have to be sturdy with little or no flexing. The Ramelson tool quality is comparable to the Swiss tools with half the cost, and because their factory is a half hour from here in Newark, NJ--gotta patronize the Jersey shops!

I have done a fair amount of research on carving tools for signs and I have come to the conclusion that sign carvers either use knives--period, or they use carving tools, i.e. chisels, gouges, fishtail tools, etc. I like the simplicity of using a few knives, but the results of carving tools. I also am not a big fan of complicated sharpening. I'm fine with simple honing with emery paper. But I can do without the hassle of sharpening v-tools, curved edges, etc. (I'm Lazy!)

One article I was particularly impressed with was written about Paul White--noted sign carver from New England.

http://www.signweb.com/dimensional/cont/carvtls.html

White recommended the following:

Three straight chisels. Specifically, a 1/2- or 5/8-inch chisel, a 1-inch chisel and a 1 1/2-inch chisel.
Two Number-3 gouges-one 3/8 inch wide, one 3/4 inch wide.
One small to medium sized V-tool
One fishtail chisel

I have his book and I can see how and why he uses the tools with excellent results. But his work is his livelihood. Mine is to pass time.

After all this typing the thought has occurred to me that maybe I just need to stay the course with what I am doing now, and with time and practice, my results will be as good as the results of using carving tools.

So, now I have laid my dilemma. So, if I haven't put you to sleep yet, any thoughts or advice?

Thanks

[squbrigg]

I have done a few signs, raised letters and incised letters, using Ramelson and Warren tools......mostly: the straight chizel, a #3 fishtail gouge, a #5 fishtail gouge, a skew chizel. The sizes / width of the blades will depend on the size of the letters, the Ramelson's are about 3/8" blades and the Warrens about 5/8" and both sets are short handled. I have some long/standard handled gouges, Henry Taylors and some German tools, but don't find them as handy for sign work.

I will disagree with you on the sharpening thing though.....the best money I have ever invested was in good quality Japanese Water stones (1000/4000/8000), both full size stones and slip stones. Those with a good leather strop and polishing compound keep me a happy carver! I just don't get good enough results with emery paper on glass. Not interested in power sharpening.....stones teach you patience!

Bob

[Just Carving]

Thanks for the input Squbrigg. Perhaps it is the stones that are the reason that I despise sharpening. I have a set of Arkansas stones, I used them a number of times, but I found that I do better with the emery paper.

As for the tools, is there that much difference in the curve between the #3 and #5 fishtail gouges to need both? I was thinking of buying one or the other--but I didn't know which would be better for doing tight spots on the raised lettering?

Thanks again
Bob

[squbrigg]

I'd get both #3 and #5, you will find that you will use each on the round letters, different parts of the round. The shapes are tighter curves as you go around the letter, then loosen up again. For example the letter "O" isn't a circle, the top curve is a tighter arc than the sides. As for stones....I have never had luck/skill with Arkansas stones, just don't work for me, but Japanese water stones do! When I got the skill down pat, my carving improved considerably as did my enjoyment of carving. Nothing will PO a carver, or discourage, as quickly as a dull tool.

Bob

[Just Carving]

Bob,

I agree on the PO'd carver with dull tools!

I'll take another look at the fishtails and chisels--and of course, the Japanese stones.

Thanks for the insight.

[big_Wayne_P]

Here is something I coppied off a web site
has the different tool shapes
Notice the #5 has more of a cure than the #3
found this on The WoodCraft site http://thewoodcraftshop.com/
page 42 stuff you need to know look at the attachment



can also check out Old Texas Woodcarvers http://www.texaswoodcarvers.com/
then carving tools
then sets by Ramelson








• No. 1 - Flat Chisel beveled on both sides

•No. 2 - Skew Chisel with cutting edge on an angle

•No. 3 - #3 Gouge very slight sweep...the larger the number the

deeper the sweep

•No. 4 - #4 Gouge

•No. 5 - #5 Gouge

•No. 6 - #6 Gouge



•No. 7 - #7 Gouge

•No. 8 - #8 Gouge

•No. 9 - #9 Gouge

• No. 10 - #10 Gouge

• No. 11 - #11 Gouge Could also be called a Veiner

•No. 12 - Veiner or U Gouge has a radius at the bottom with high

sidewalls.

•No. 13 - 30 Degree V Tool unusual because of narrow angle.

•No. 14 - 45 Degree V Tool more common •No. 15 - 60 Degree V Tool most common of all • No. 16 - 90 Degree V Tool makes a wider cut.

[Just Carving]

Big Wayne,

Thanks! The chart is a big help. And the links give me another perspective on prices too.

Bob