Japanese Carving Gouges--Are they worth It?

Woodforge · #1 08-05-2006, 10:19 PM

Hi,

I am an extensive group of Sorby, Taylor and Ashley Isles chisels but I am looking for a few chisels that can take on hardwoods better. I've looked at the Professional Carving Chisels at the Japan Woodworker website & was wondering if anyone has tried these & how they cut?

I know the Japanese steel is laminated and harder by 4 or 5 on the Rockwell scale but can they cut with a 15 degree bevel or am I stuck with their standard 25-35 degree bevel because of brittlness? I don't know...for $50+ I'd like to hear from youall first. Help!

squbrigg · #2 08-06-2006, 08:02 AM

I am looking forward to any responses as well Woodforge, but for carving a different wood, Red Cedar. I have a large project approaching in this wood and I've never carved it before, so I am looking at some of their tools quite seriously. Most of my tools are for smaller carving too, so the blade size would matter.

I believe that the bevel would have to increase for harder woods, not decrease? For Oak, Maple, Beech etc, a bevel of 30*- 35* would be better than the 20* - 25* one.

They make pretty unique tools.

Bob

Woodforge · #3 08-06-2006, 09:46 AM

Yes squbrigg, you are right about the bevel angle needing to be higher for hardwoods (all things being equal). But in the case of Japanese laminated steel all things become not so equal again. With a hardness of Rc64-65 they should be able to take much more pressure than the standard Rc57-59 Western carving chisels. Plus the J. steel has been laminated not just for ease of use & sharpening, but also for compensating for brittleness to prevent chipping of the edge.

Ultimately you want the smallest bevel angle possible that will still not damage the blade in order to have the most control when pushing the chisel forward. Carving with a 35 degree bevel would be like carving with a dull gouge...you could do it but the results won't look as good. Besides I think the 30-35 degree bevels apply only to the J. mortising chisels. I think their gouges come beveled around 25 degrees. I was wondering if I could lower that angle even further to the 15 degrees I have on my Sorby/Taylor gouges. With those I can carve honduras mahongany fine, but oak & walnut will curl the edges.

Woodforge · #4 08-03-2007, 11:59 AM

Well, waited a year for an asnwer & no one seems t know so I tried some myself. I bought a laminated Japanese#7 gouge from the Japan Woodworker, ~$45 + sh and it looked beautiful, Tsegana or something like that, perfect shaped oval handle, was advertised as a violin carver. In the straight ahead carving of hardwoods it did great but when I attempted to lift up or down the end the edge of the blade (last 1-2 mm) chipped easily. It takes an incredibly long time to carefully remove the chip and resharpen it because of the hardness of the blade. When I tried it again, it happened again. Then it struck me. The laminated part of the blade that is supposed to keep it from being too brittle does not begin until 1-2 mm after the sharpened edge. In other words the edge is sharpened which grinds away the lamination of the very last bit. Then the blade is edge is prone to be too brittle at that exact point & subject to chip. So that defeats the whole point of lamination overcoming the harder R65 brittleness.

I have done the same exact carving in hardwoods with Ashley Iles gouges & had not problem with their lower hardness being around R60. It appears one must have this balance of hardness to be hard enough but not too brittle & lamination or Japanese magic does not change that law of physics. Oh and The Japan Woodworker did allow a return even minus shipping. A good learning experience.

BobD · #5 08-03-2007, 12:13 PM

Hello Woodforge,
Thank you for biting the bullet, trying out the gouge, and posting your results. I have no personal experience with the tools, so I hesitated to post anything! Great job!

Also, it is a great endorsement for the Japan Woodworker. I've had good experience with them on saws and planes, but never tried the carving tools. My dad loves the bench chisels, though.

Bob

Just Carving · #6 08-03-2007, 12:58 PM

Would this chipping happen with the Mikisho Power Grip tools? They're also sold by Japanese woodworker, but if I bought the 7.5 mm skew and straight chisels, I'd probably get them at Woodcraft, or maybe Mountain Heritage Crafters who has them at a cheaper price.

I looked around a bit more, and Warren Cutlery has the same tools with the hardened edge listed as Rockwell 64C. Given that the tools are small in width, no doubt the corners will chip if I turn the tool ever so slightly. Guess I'll make my own a piece of scrap file steel and copy the handle. Probably better off since I'm not sure if I'll like the handle style.