[Just Carving]

Taken from Plain Ol' Ed's post on the "Ashley Iles tools" thread:

I prefer the older tools (addis etc.)

Speaking of which, can you "experienced" carvers tell me the names of the tools that can't be bought any more--you know, the ones that a carver would give up a leg for. I'd keep my eyes peeled for them at the local garage sales and flea markets but I need to know the names so I can do my research on the Internet to see what they look like and what tell-tale "trademarks" to look for.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob

[AlArchie]

One brand you might look for is Millers Falls.

Al

[FK]

I belive the current made carving tools are superior in metallurgy and design with respect to the "older" collectible tools.

Cape Forge, Diobsud Forge, Kestral, Herb Dunkle and others make finer tools with superior heat treatment and steels. The factory Pfeil, Ashley Isles and others use computer controlled temperature and alloy steels with closer quality control than the old "heat until xx color" and temper to another xx color.

Regards,
FK

[Donna_T]

There's a 6 pc set of Antique Miller's Falls tools listed on ebay with less than a day to go on the bidding. Plus, there are 2-3 other Miller's Falls sets listed there on other pages. Are they supposed to be good tools?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...185891231&rd=1

Donna T

[FK]

I have a set of Millers Falls, they are just O'K,,,,if you can buy the set of six for about $30-$35 they are worth the investment. You will be required to sharpen more often than the premium tools however, the MF are fine for budget tools.

Regards,
FK

[AlArchie]

Millers Falls was one of the premier tool manufactures in the US from the late 1800's till they closed shop in the mid 1950's. Their tool line was, along with Stanley, top of the line, for professional woodworkers (and machinists as well).

I have the remnants of one of their carving sets and it still serves me well. They are not a great set, but are comparable to Ramelson or similar sets, and far and away better than some of the comparably priced tools. More of an historic treasure that a functional one!

Al

[Plain_Ol_Ed]

As usual, my initial response to the question lacked completeness. I prefer the older tools mostly because they have character, not to mention that they are usually lighter. I think carvers tend to get too wrapped around the axle on particular steels, rockwell hardness, etc. The true test is do they do the job they were designed to do. You are going to have to sharpen and maintain them, no matter who manufactured them. Don't fall for the "sharp out of the box" deal. Assuming it's true (not always so), they are going to get dull, a lot sooner than later, and your going to have to sharpen them anyway. As to names: Addis and Sons, Herring, Ward and Payne, Old Buck Bros. , Ramelson, Harmen, Millers Falls, Pfiel, Stubai, Warren, and a bunch I've left out. Millers Falls are good, but limited in selection. Warren are good tools but lack the nice finish of some of the others. Old Buck Bros. are good but there was and ownership change and the newer ones are not anywhere near the quality of the older ones. EBAY is a good source, IF you know what your looking for and are patient. You can find excellent deals, but you also see stuff go for prices that are totally out of sight. You can't go wrong purchasing any of the tools that I've just mentioned. Don't worry about handles, they are designed to be replaced. You can make your own or buy commercially made ones. Don't get carried away and buy a bunch to start off with. Chances are you will eventually end up with far more than you have use for. My tool count is currently someplace between 200 and 300, not counting knives. How many do I use, about a dozen max and 5 or 6 regularly. Enough of my raving, enjoy your hunt and if you buy a bummer, just look at it as a learning experience.

[Just Carving]

Thanks everyone for your input.

I guess I was remiss in explaining my interest in the "old" tools. I have a keen interest in old tools mostly from a nostalgia point of view. I agree with you Ed that sometimes it's just the usefulness of the tool that matters. All the other stuff is great but they won't give you any better results in your carving as long as the tool is sharp and you have the experience in using it. Sometimes the newer steels can be even harder to sharpen. Some will say I am wrong but I'll stick to my guns anyway .

Al and Ed, thanks again for the names of the tools. That's just the info. I was looking for. I plan on perusing the Internet and E-bay to get more familiar with their appearance. If I see any at the local flea markets and garage sales, I'll try to snatch them up for a song. Then I'll clean and sharpen them up, and treat 'em like precious jewels!

What started this all is that I have been making some of my tools from some old tool steel. My Grandfather retired from Mack Truck as a tool and die maker back in the late 1950's. I have a bunch--about 30 or so--of old files of all sizes and shapes that he used back then. He modified quite a few of them for what ever he needed to do--even if it was for a one time only thing. They have been sitting there for a long time. They're pretty much useless as they are--rusty, gunked up, worn out, modified, etc. My Dad said my Grandfather would be happy if I'd try to breathe some new life into them--as long as I don't break them or drop them when I'm done! That'll be the hard part!

I've already started by making handles out of red oak which I chose because I like the feel of the wood. I've cleaned up the files that are still good --and I'm even using them to make the carving tools. But the files that aren't, I'm be grinding and filing them into chisels and gouges little by little.

But in the mean time, I'll be learning and Having Fun!

Thanks again everyone!

Bob

[rales]

I'm a big Millers Falls fan! - I have had a set since HS in the 60's. The sets they sold - the 107 (palm handle) and the 106 (short straight handle) were marketed aggressively to the Boy Scouts and hobbyists - for many they were the set they started carving with. They continued into the early 80's as a division of Ingersol Rand...I know in the 70's they were still producing carving tools - in the same sets... never did produce any mallet (carving) tools as far as I know.

They have two tools in the set that are still among my favorites - the skew and the short bent, straight, almost fish tail - fantastic for grounding out. I have since picked up some extra sets on ebay and have them set at a range of bevels for soft - hard woods. Expect to pay $20-$60 for complete sets. The boxed 107 sets (especially with the slipstone intact) are pretty collectible.

As far as holding an edge - I've never had a problem. Not quite as good as Pfeil (but do I like the shorter length of the MF) and they certainly hold a better edge than my Flexcuts and some of the other palm tools I have.

[squbrigg]

Bob, it sounds like you have quite a bit of work cut out for yourself, restoring those tools. Feels great when you can bring something like that back to a useful life though. Have fun with it.

A nice gouge maker gone out of the line is a German firm, can't recall the name but the logo on the steel shank or handle looks like two figures holding hands. Great edges on them, hold it well and cut smooth as silk. Hex European handles of course. Wish I had bough a complete outfit when I bought these two, but money was tight......damm it still is, so I'll have to make do with what I have. Have fun with your shopping and restoration.

Bob