[brian bailey]

Hey Mark,

What's wrong with using knives?

You mean I gotta toss my knives along with my palms too?

Great work BTW!

[mark yundt]

Hello Brian, Not this again! LOL,,,I used to have palms,,they're great for scraping old paint and putty from the nooks and crannies and opening cans of stain or paint! And knives,,well what else would I use to slice my sandwich or carve a ham?LOL,,,Oh,,you crack me up!
Thanks for the compliment buddy!

[brian bailey]

Originally Posted by mark yundt

Hello Brian, Not this again! LOL,,,I used to have palms,,they're great for scraping old paint and putty from the nooks and crannies and opening cans of stain or paint! And knives,,well what else would I use to slice my sandwich or carve a ham?LOL,,,Oh,,you crack me up!
Thanks for the compliment buddy!

Hi Mark,

I'm not intending to start a debate with ya, but your 2nd paragraph in post #31 of this thread kind of puts down a lot of knife carvers.

I did a quick read of this thread from the beginning and couldn't find any reference to using knives on this project.

I'm curious in your reasoning for the knife story. Maybe a throw over from the dragon scales thread?

Your buddy, brian...

[mark yundt]

Hello Brian,
No,,I really do not have anything against knife carvers.Love 'em. For that style of carving that is the tool to use.I enjoy the pieces they produce and like to look at them.

For the type of work I do,,which covers a fairly broad spectrum of syles ( only half is pictured on my site) I have not,,do not and most likely will not use knives for carving.Since I do this stuff full time,,and need all the help I can get,be it speed,accuracy or finish,don't you think that if I found a knife useful at any stage of my carvings I would actually use one? If I found a situation where a knife produced a superior cut or finish that would be the tool I would grab? Could a knife make my life easier,,lets face it,,some of this stuff isn't easy as it is,,and a knife would only complicate things.
I choose the tool that produces the most accuracy,,cleanest cut,,and gives the most power,,,a knife simply can't do that for me,,and after so many years of carving,,I have a fairly decent grip and a pretty good idea of what the cuts should look like and a knife, simply put, doesn't work.

But as I said for general whittling and carving,,things like that they are PERFECT!
And not to sound arrogant or pompous,,but at a certain level,,if knife cuts cause someone to loose a quarter million in work as I previously mentioned,,Or someone is paying me 50 grand for a carving why would I use anything but the best tool for the job? There are people out there who see and know the difference,,and that's what they pay me for,,,the difference.
When I first picked up a block of wood,,I too used a knife. Actually made quite a few. Had a ball and thought that was the path to follow. Till I saw what some carvers were doing,,saw what they used and didn't use,,and reaslised a knife wasn't going to get me anywhere close to what they were doing. Been in alot of shops,,seen many new carvers show up for work with their knives and palms in tow ready to go. Within a week the palms and knives are gone and a fresh set of full size chisels is on order.Pun intended, they just don't cut it when trying to produce this work.And,,,that doesn't mean just big stuff.I really don't care what I'm asked to carve,,from little figures,,faces,,flowers,,brackets,capitals,,you name it,,I'll do it all with nothing but full size chisels and I feel ,produce a superior product.That's what produces my carvings and puts money in my pocket. At a certain point when it gets serious, ya can't go against big guns carrying nothing but a knife.

P.S. This same pattern holds true in most areas of interest or hobbies that I can think of. And also,in all the years I have been carving,,and the hundreds of carvings I have done,,I have never,,yes never been cut by a chisel.

[Kenny_S]

Never say never Mark! There is always a "first time".
A knife has its purpose, like any other tool.
However, some uses tools in a wrong manner, like prying off lids of paint cans.

But, I did learn some things from you verbage and pictures. I appreciate your time and thoughts put in to this thread.

[gene messer]

Mark .. That picture frame is turning out amazing .. such beautiful work ..

Iam humbled at such work ..

Mark .. I get what you mean about not using knives .. especially the type of work you do .. I couldnt see you using a knife to create this ..

Even though I use a knife specifically for carving .. a knife isnt for all types of carving .. I know Emil Janel .. the wonderful caricature carver and flat plane figure carver never used knives on his figures .. he simply carved from a block of wood with chisels .. and his figures are fantastic ..

I think it is just how the indivual chooses his way to carve ..

Lets put it this way .. if I could create the beautiful work you do only using a butter knife or chainsaw .. I would use it .. Whatever it takes ..
I know that is a silly illustration .. but you use whatever you know is right .. there are no set limits to creativity ..
You yourself knows what works ..

God Bless Mark

Gene

[mark yundt]

Thanks guys,,I'm sure you do understand my position. For the umteenth time,,I have nothing against carvers using knives. Many wonderful pieces have been done with them and will always be done with a knife.

Yes Gene,,you want to do a flat plane style,,can be done easily with chisels as Mr Janel has done.And as I have always said as you reiterated Gene,,if there was a better faster cleaner way,,I'd certainly be the first in line to get it,,and tout it's benefits to all!
A knife is the most basic and useful tool ever invented,,probably was the first one invented I would venture to guess.But to me and where they fit into my scheme of things they really don't and this includes as you well know palm chisels. To me,,they're fairly analogous to many different steps in a hobby. A knife is well known to most and they feel comfortable using one on a daily basis,,so that's the first tool they tend to turn to when carving,,just try it out,see what happens. The next step,,cost being a factor is a palm set. You can do alot more,,and for many this is plenty of fun vs.time and money.You can carve using these alone for the rest of your life. But there are some people who say,,even though they have no plans to make this a living,,I need something more,,my carvings don't look like the pros do.How do they do that work? Ahhhh..
Same thing happened with me during MANY of my hobbies. An instamatic took reasonable pictures,,,but they don't look like what I would like to see or capture,,what do the pros use. My .22 gun was fine for plinking,,but now I want to compete and race,,what do the pros use. My cheap-o bike was fine for tooling around,,but I want to go farther faster,what do the pros use.I dabbled with painting,,grabbed a bag-o-brushes for a buck or so,and a handful of little bottles of paint,,fine,,but it doesn't look like what I want,,now a single brush costs as much as all my original art supplies..I could go on,,but you get the picture.That's what happened to me with my carving,,except this hobby stuck like no other.So like these hobbies,,which we indulge almost without care,,can go on as far as we like them to. If you want to kick your carvings up a notch or two to look like those you admire I think it may be time to start thinking about and learning to get the most out of a full size set of chisels.Once understood they are easier to use,,safer,,faster,more versatile,,accurate. Just like the other hobbies,,want to look like the pros,,look at the tools they use and see the results they can get. Yes it costs more,,takes a commitment,,,but the results are very satisfying and unmistakeable.The first times I used full size chisels I have to admit I was a bit intimidated. But in no time I knew what I was missing,,,it became so much easier.
Palms and knives are a great introduction without much outlay.And as I said can last a long time.And if you decide this isn't for you,,well not much lost.But some will come to a point where you become a serious hobbiest,,and want more,and do more.Welcome ,,lets see what they can do and try and find their limits....

[brian bailey]

Thanks for your reply Mark!

A little more than what I expected but again maybe not .

My dad has been a knife carver since the early 1930's or was it the late twenties. He even made some spending money from his carvings during the great depression. Pretty amazing ....

Your story in post 31 hit a nerve with me because I'm a knife carver too.

[mark yundt]

Thanks Roger,,I hope you caught my post in reply! The time lag sometimes throws replies off a bit.

Brian,,what else can I say,,NOTHING MARK,,SHUT UP! Haa,,,yeah,,I'm always smiling. But like they say,,give them more than they asked for.Trust me,,I meant no slight to you or your Grandfather. I can see by your post he did excellent work and had every right to earn some money from his carvings,,the one I saw is very good and you should be proud,, I know I'd be.
And it's been said here so many times,,,there are more than one way to skin a cat ( don't tell mine I said that) and I'm sure we can all agree on that.
Yeah EJNelson,,we all wish we did alot of things differently when we were younger,,,youth is wasted on the young. So here you are now,,with a passion to do something,,SO JUST DO IT. Start where you are and go at it,,one step at a time.Study,,get some tools,,and above all TRY IT. Doesn't matter how it looks or turns out,,it's simply a starting step.That gets you one step closer to your goals and you WILL learn so much just doing that.This whole thing is a dance that is constantly moving between you ,the wood and the chisels.You learn what moves they can do,,what you can do,,you make adjustments until it all starts to flow effortlessly and you can carve whatever you wish without much effort,,the wood moves with you,,you see where it's going and you follow,,sometimes you lead.But you don't lead with your head. In the early stages you do,,but the sooner you learn not to,,the easier it is. This is a hard thing to learn because it's not the way we usually do things. We normally read all about something to learn it,,we know all about something,,but here ,,these thoughts can get in the way..but as I said initially it does require thought.
I do believe that's part of the reason I enjoy posting. I normally don't give this stuff a thought,,chisels,,designs,,carving. My mind is usually a million miles away. But here I have to try and reel in what happened along the way and relay it back to someone. Or try and solidify my thoughts to see exactly what transpired to get where I got. Like driving a car,,you arrive but don't remember the stops,,go,,turns,,any of the things along the way.That's how I carve.No thoughts,,just carve.
Remember the bike story Doris ?( if you're out there) or when I said,,
"JUST CARVE IT" You knew what I meant. Don't let your thoughts guide you,,they'll just get in the way,,just simply carve. Sounds simple,,but takes time to learn.If you think of every step in the dance,,you'll stumble,trip and fall,,carving isn't a thought,,it's a movement.

[Kenny_S]

WOW, I would hate to be on the road with you if you "Don't" Think about your driving!