[MJ1607]

Hey Everybody,

Here I go again. I've been on the hunt for tools and have come up with another question. I have read that the difference between the sweep numbering system for English (Sheffield) tools and the sweep numbering system for continental European tools is that an English sweep is equivalent to the next greater size of European sweep: e.g. an English gouge of sweep No. 3 is equivalent to a European gouge of sweep No. 4.

Thus, my two questions are as follows: one, is what I have read true; two, more importantly (at least to me) does it apply to the Two Cherries brand of tools?

Thanks again for any help you guys can provide.

Michael

[chuckt]

I have heard that generalization as well and I believe it to be true in some instances (sweeps 1 - 11). However, they may not match exactly. Each manufacturer's actual sweep may vary slightly as well even though they are using the same system. Also, once you move above 11 you are into V tools and various special tools and the numberings can vary widely I believe. I've not seen any chart showing the Two Cherries sweeps so I am not sure if they are numbered according to the Sheffield system or the system Pfeil (Swiss Made) uses. You might try contacting someone at http://www.diefenbacher.com/german.htm who are the biggest online dealer I could find, to see if they can point you to a sweeps chart.

!
ChuckT

[EdO]

Just to confuse you even more, two maufacturers who use the same system may make tools labeled witht he same sweep, but that are as much as one number off. I.E. A number five from one may be the same as a number 6 from another while a third might be a five and a half. All claiming to use the same numbering system. What does that mean? I don't know, other than the numbers are only a general guide. You'll find that after you've carved for awhile, you don't really think about the numbers, you just grab the right tool automatically.

[chuckt]

Yep - I agree. You don't want to get too caught up in the whole numbering system thing. Basically you usually want to cover a shallow sweep (using the Pfiel #ing chart for comparisoon - #2 roughly), a "medium" sweep (a #5, 6, or 7) and a deep sweep (#9), and maybe some veiners (#11 - these have a taller straight section of sidewall shaped like the letter U ). Oh - and a couple V-tools.

But you indicated that you are looking to carve carousel figures so you may want to check these recommendations against articles or books specific to that interest and select your sizes (widths) accordingly. Basically though you are looking to carve larger "in the round" sculptural figures.

Hope this helps.
ChuckT

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

Its not the "tools" that confuses us...its the "sweeps"....too close to cleaning shop talk!!

[xsailer]

I also have been trying to figure what the difference is b/t the Sheffield and Pfeil systems are. I've pulled up both of their info pages and it looks to me like the only difference is not the sweeps but the first number you read that defineds the type of gouge it is
For instance HT"s are:
01 or (1) equals Straight, flat chisel
03 or (3) equals straight gouges
24-32 equals Short bent gouges
33-38 equals Back bent gouges
and so on, there are several.

The Pfeil's first set of numbers don't agree with HT's

Of course the sweep would follow the first set of numbers when applicable and as I said, I think the sweeps are the same b/t the two.

If I'm wrong please let know.

Bob

[Just Carving]

Pfiel (Swiss tools) calls out a skew as a #1S while the Sheffield system calls out a skew as a #2. So the gouge numbering system is off by one number. That's only the beginning. I'll let you have the fun of comparing the systems by clicking on the different types of tools on the woodcarvingsupply.com link, you can compare with the Sheffield list here and at the link. I wouldn't go crazy over it. For me other than ordering a tool, I couldn't care less. I look at the tools for the one that's going to get the job done. For the most part, I just use my utility knife, 1/4" chisel, 1/2" skew chisel, or the Gonzalez skew chisel. The gouges sit there gathering dust unless I'm in the mood for using one of them.

http://www.woodcraft.com/articles.aspx?articleid=269
The Sheffield List



http://www.woodcarvingsupply.com/page01.htm

[xsailer]

Thank you Bob for the easy to read Woodcarving Supply link and your input. Having done some comparisons of your info it appears the sweeps of both Sheffield and Swiss are the same. This was, I think, the confusion of comparisons from one to the other at least for me. I've read numerous comments saying the two systems were not the same but no one stated that the sweep curves were the same which to me was my main concern when comparing, for instance, Henry Taylor to Pfeil.