[MJ1607]

Hey Guys,

I've been doing a lot more research and found Chris Pye's great website. Wish I'd found it sooner. Anyway, I've read his list of suggested tools for the beginner & think it would be a good way for me to start. However, he only mentions a few brands (Auriou, Henry Taylor, Ashley Iles, Pfiel) in his suggested lists. I'm wondering if it would be possible to assemble a set of Stubai tools from his list. I've tried to do this using his Pfiel suggested list, but I can't find the exact sizes and sweeps that he recommends.

Is it possible to assemble a tool set based on Chris Pye's list using Stubai tools, and if so, what tools from Stubai should be used?

Thanks,

Michael

[RussL.]

Michael,

I am fashioning my own "home-schooling" in wood carving from a couple
of Chris Pye's books and have put together the chisels below for the tasks under which they are listed based on his lists.

I think most everyone would tell you that 'identically' matching Chris' recommeded maker/tools is not really necessary...just come as close as you can and work from there.

As you can see, my list is not exactly what Chris' lists, but for the most part I have tried to find a close match while also trying multiple manufactures to see who I liked best.

I have had no problem doing any of the excercises in his relief carving book and his carving letters in wood.

Best regards,

RussL.


Letter Carving Gouges



1.Pfeil #1- 16mm straight chisel
2.Pfeil #1- 25mm straight chisel
3.Pfeil #1- 14mm skew chisel
4.Lamp Brand#1-12mm Fishtail
5.Flexcut #1 – ¾” Chisel, Single Bevel

6.Lamp Brand #1- 40mm straight chisel
7.Pfeil #5 – 14mm fishtail chisel

Relief Carving Gouges

1.Flexcut #1 – ¾” Chisel, Single Bevel (long handled)
2.Stubai#2- 9/32” (7mm) Skew
3.Ashley Iles #2.5 1” Gouge
4.Pfeil #3-12mm
5.Stubai#3 – 3/13” (5mm) Gouge
6.Two Cherries #3 ¾” (19mm) Gouge
7.Two Cherries#5 (16mm)
8.Two Cherries #6 ½” (13mm) Gouge
9.Stubai #7-9/32 (7mm) Gouge
10.Pfeil #7- 14mm
11.Pfeil #7- 20mm
12.Flexcut FR402 #8 – 3/8” (10mm) Gouge
13.Pfeil #9 -5mm
14.Two Cherries#9 12mm

15.Pfeil #9- 20mm
16.Ashley Iles #40 60oV Tool 5/16”
17.Stubai60* - 8mm V Tool

[chuckt]

Yep! What Russ said. Just get close and you'll have a great basic set to build from. In his Woodcarving Tools & Euipment vol 1 book - he has a great chart of all the Sheffield carving sweeps and sizes in a reference chart which you should be able to compare to the Pfiel or Stubai reference charts to get approximate matches.

The Stubai tools seemed a little pricey for my pocket, but they look like beautiful tools and I've heard great things about them. Best of luck with compiling your set and with your purchase.

!
ChuckT

[Eddy Smiles]

Michael...

What kind of carving do you want to do? How big? Chris Pye may provide a list of recommended beginner tools but it sounds as if you are really a beginner. Chris Pye is a very good and sophisticated carver and his beginning tools might be just a little advanced for you at this stage of the game. Until you know (that is assuming that you don't) what kind of carving you want to do why don't you just purchase an inexpensive beginner set like "Little Shaver's" sells. Tackle a couple of different kinds of carvings and then you will know exactly what kind of tools you really need. You may decide that you want palm tools in lieu of full handled gouges and V's. It would be a shame to spend a lot of money on tools that you're really not sure you'll ever use.

[chuckt]

Eddy makes a good point. I was assuming that you were asking for a solid beginners base of tools for relief and sculptural "in the round" styles of carving where you'll be holding your work piece in a vise or carving workholder of some sort. These gouges are meant to be used two handed - not one handed. So you must have the carving securely held in place.

If you are interested in carving characatures or smaller hand held carvings - these are not the right tools for you.

I also have a small set of Flexcut palm gouges and some knives for that type of carving. Many here swear by Rick's beginners set of carving tools for this type of carving.

Let us know what style of carving or what kinds of things you want to carve and what sizes and we can give you better advice.

!
ChuckT

[mark yundt]

The type and style of carving you wish to do MIGHT have a bearing on what tools you choose,,but not necessarily.I know I'm always the one to go against the grain,,but in all honesty I have to say I don't agree.

LOL Oh man,,,I never learn.Sorry guys..Me and my stupid opinions,,,LOL

[chuckt]

Heh heh heh - why Mark - don't you know by now that we LOVE your "stupid opinions". That's what provides for the opportunity to ask further questions and learn from one another. LOL!!

So - after your post you DO realize that I am going to have to ask you to expound on what was barely the tip of that opinion iceberg! ;-)

Do you disagree with the distinction that *I* drew in my post between hand held small carvings versus larger "work holder" carving? Or are you saying that ALL carving including smaller "hand held" carving could/should be clamped and accomplished with full sized gouges? Or some other distinction that I am missing entirely. (probable)

Looking forward to further enlightenment!

!
ChuckT

[Keithmc]

As a beginner I'm curious as to what you meant also, Mark. I need all the opinions and help I can get.
Keith

[mark yundt]

Oh Chuck,,,really,,,you LOVE my stupid opinions?? Now who's blowing smoke?? Ha,,LOL..
I thought there was a certain irony where Chris Pye,,offering his advice as to which tools a beginner should consider,,similar to what Norbury ,,Hall,, Klitsas,,,as well as many other full time carvers ( including myself) have suggested,but considering someone is a "real" beginner ,,should start with palms. I didn't understand the differentation between a beginner and a real beginner and why the difference in tool selection.There is a "beginner" here that uses nothing but full size and is doing quite well. They also said there is a lower chance of nasty cuts using them.
I remember when I was a beginner and learned to use nothing other than full size chisels,,palms were basically verboten. I personally feel that way today.
Are full size chisels limited to in the round style carvings? Do palms fill some void,,dependent on size of the carving for example? Can you not use full size single handed? Are full size only for big carvings,,or ones you have to clamp down? Anyone reading this has to know my feelings about clamping down a carving vs. letting it roll around on the bench or trying to hold it with one hand and doing all the carving with the other by now..If you don't I'll expand on my feelings there as well if you like.But essentially ,,,clamp it down.
BUT...full size chisels have been around for centuries and have produced the most amazing array of carvings from reliefs,,figures,,signs,,well you name it ,,they've done it,,from small to large.
I feel they are safer to use because both hands are behind the edge ,one guiding and one pushing. Also ,because of this there is inherently more power to the chisel,,as well as accuracy,,control of each cut,,less chance of it "skipping off the cut" as you go.They also ( if used properly) offer you an omnidirectional range of cuts from any angle without having to shift or rearrange your carving. Stop cuts are more accurately controlled as well as paring cuts eliminating fuzzies at the bottom.If you like they can be used with one hand quite well.
As you might know,,I do a wide variety of carvings,,and not once have I ever reached for a palm chisel after all these years. Regardless of size,style,intricacies,,undercuts..whatever,,it's all been done with full size chisels.Fairly tiny pieces to the trees I'm working on now,,have been done with basically the same set I started with.Small carvings can be done with full size tools.I don't have the micro's either.
It was said to me one time that "Mark,,you as well as most other full time carvers will reach for a chisel to clean up your carvings,,whereas many will tend to reach for a knife" Now I'm not saying a full time carvers pieces will always be cleaner,,but using a chisel I believe will clean up a carving better every time.
Besides,,if pros are suggesting full size chisels over palms and knives ( yes,,I'm sure they have their place somewhere) don't you think they themselves would use them regularly if they were the better tool to reach for??? As I recently said to someone,,If Barry Bonds uses a full size two handed bat,,,why would I use a one handed billy club,,,or if Tiger Woods uses full size clubs,,why would I use the set from Fisher Price?
I've included some examples of small pieces, they aren't the best ,but its all I had on hand at the moment.And most of you know my bigger pieces. And they were all carved with my "beginner set" from when I first started. I don't see any reason to change something that seems to work just fine in any thing I ask of them.
The mouldings are reasonably small,,done as prototypes for castings,,all variations of Acanthus leaves.The swan,,well that's what it is. And the crucifix is a full size piece..and as I said these were all done with the same set of tools. I don't intend this to be arrogant because I don't intend it to be ,,cause I'd really like to know,,is there a carving that can be better done using just palms ,,large or small that couldn't be done as well if not better with a reasonable selection of full size chisels?I've shown the Greenman process,,and as you know that was done using 6 chisels..I would have hesitated to do even that with just palms.I think as a primary tool ,,especially for a beginner,,they are just so limiting in their scope.
How was that Chuck? Not exactly enlightening ,,just my thoughts

[Eddy Smiles]

Mark...

Before I get into what I'd like to contribute let me say this.... Your carving ability is outstanding and mine wouldn't make a pimple on a good carver's posterior end. With that said I disagree with you.

First off, not everyone has your artistic ability and investment into a lot of expensive tools with no knowledge of where the hobby is going could lead to a great waste of money, that the person may or may not have. If it's between spending $50.00 to see what this carving thing is all about and $150-$200 I'd say that for most of us, yourself being the obvious exception, would be better off starting off with the lesser amount.

And I say this with a vast amount of personal knowledge and experience. My mentor has only the best, in tools, paints, brushes....etc.. He has from the very beginning encouraged me to do exactly as you perscribe but if I had, I'd have a whole lot of stuff that I wouldn't be using and a whole lot of money invested that I really can't afford.

My hobby growth is directly proportional to my experience gain and my pocket book and for me at least, it works. And if the contrary works for you, God Bless you, I hope that some day I reach your level of development. You do good work!