[Tom H]

I am going to go way out on a limb here. Being a relatively new carver (3 years), I can still remember most of my first carving experiences. Like most others I am self taught. Which brings to mind that ol "saw" "if the learner hasen't learned the teacher hasen't taught". My first knife was a Murphy bench knife. This knife along with a Cratex block to keep sharp served me for a very short time. Soon the "knife bug" bit me. I thought that with a better or different knife I could be a better and different carver...faster too.

I am going out on the limb now! Am I right or wrong that a new carver should probably stay with that first knife (if it's a decent one), learn to keep it sharp, and use it long enough to be able to make it do the things that it is supposed to do? I suspect that by bounching around between each new knife the new carver never spends enough time actually learning how any one knife works. I can honestly say that it has only been recently that I felt any way close to being confident that I can make a knife do what I want it to do. And it's not every knife that I have, that I can make it do just what I want it to do. There is no substitute for practice and experience with one knife and tool. Am I making any sense?

Tom H

[carvedbears61]

You carved a chip right off the wood " or
hit nail on head I have been using a Murphy and a Denny for 3 yrs.

[Iowa Carver]

I am a real beginner and only been carving for a few months. I became a knife junky real fast. I have several Wells knives, 2 Denny small detail knives and a Murphy bench knife. I quickly tossed the Murphy off that I got in my beginners set as a cheapy. I bought the power sharpener from Chipping Away to strop on and that keeps my knives good and sharp easily.

The thin bladed Wells knives are great and really slice through the wood but I have found they are not the answer to all situations. They dont roll real whell due to the thin blade and the Murphy and Denny's do that job well. When one knife isn't doing what I want I switch. I pretty much use the Denny detail knives for getting in tight places etc. I now carve with about 4 knives on the bench. The only knife I can say that I really don't like that I have is the Wells big 2 1/4... I don't use that much. For now I think I have enough knives and will concentrate working with what I have. But don't discard that Murphy, those are nice and cheap and useful knives. Just a few thoughts from a newbie

Corey

[Plain_Ol_Ed]

Can't go wrong with the Murphy. Stick with it until you find something that it just won't do (that may take awhile), then look for a knife that will accomplish that task.

[AlArchie]

If that Murphy is treatin' ya right, keep usin' it! I didn't particularly care for it, but that was mostly due to my big paws; I like a little heftier handle and larger blade. Personal preference, not a matter of having found a "better" knife. My favorites are my old Whittlin' Jacks and the large Flexcut. The heavy WJ's I find good for heavy wood removal and yet are fine enough for some detail work. The flexcuts are really nice for basswood and light stock removal.

That Whittlin' Jack is NOT the same as the Flexcut's Carving Jack. And I don't particularly care for the newer style blades they have come out with. WJ's are now made by Stanley in China. Good steel but will definitely need sharpening when you get them, and the stainless is a bear to sharpen the first time. And unless you can find the old style bench knives I wouldn't recommend you get the standard assortment of blades they offer in sets now.

Al

[Capt. Bandaid]

A lady selling carving tools at the Fredricksburg Carving Get Together last week told me she did not like selling Ron Wells knives to beginners because they were brittle. They are made from high-speed steel with a lot of carbon and alloy and this is probably true. She said the Denny knives are made from O1 tool steel which is a simple carbon and manganese steel. It is less hard and brittle and better for beginners. High alloy steels, like stainless and some tool steels are difficult to sharpen once they are dulled. They are more than just hard, they contain a lot of alloy carbides which are extremely abrasion resistant. That is what makes them stay sharp and also what makes them hard to sharpen. Well, I am no beginner and I bought a Ron Wells knife (the RW kind, not the RW/MS kind). After using it for an hour or so I decided I did not like the rough handle. A few minutes on the belt sander and it had a much smoother grip. The blade was roughly finished and I felt this was unsightly and added drag to the cut. Another half hour on a 2000 grit waterstone and then a soft arkansas stone put a reasonable finish on it. I stropped it up and OH MY GOODNESS! It could take a 1/4" deep cut off of a basswood stick with almost no effort. It could cross-cut the grain better than some of my knives cut with the grain! I am a real Helvie fan and my final version of the Ron Wells knife is even better! Mr. Shipley! What about a "Premium" version of the RW/MS knife with a bit better finishing???

[Tom H]

Going back to my original thought and question - do you think a beginning carver should settle on one knife, until he/she is very comfortable with it? Of course the knife would have to be a decent one. The reason for my question is that several new and beginner carvers have joined our group. One of them seems to be buying a new knife every week and trying it out. It seems to me that this fellow is not progressing in his carving. The other beginner has stayed with his first knife and is mastering it quite well; and his carving is progressing very well too.

Thanks,

Tom H

[Iowa Carver]

I don't think so Tom. In my opinion if a new carver can swing for several different knives, I think he should to learn what different knives and styles are capable of. On the other hand over loading yourself with an array of knives is not the way to go either which seems like what your new carver is doing.

Corey

[Plain_Ol_Ed]

Assuming the knife a person has is a good one, switching between knives will be like switching between golf clubs. It's going to cost you five strokes until you get used to the new one. It takes time to aquire a feel for a knife. Not roughing cuts, but the finer detail cuts. The time to buy another knife will come, but not right off. Most carving knives are some small variation of a Wharncliffe. Ones about the same as another for the most part.

Now that's a do as I say, not as I do. From the proud owner of more knives than he cares to count.

The history of the Wharncliffe blade is interesting in itself. From the website of Rod Neep.

Lord Wharncliffe

The Wharncliffe blade is attributed to the design of "Lord Wharncliffe" who was the patron of Joseph Rodgers & Sons in Sheffield. So I started doing a little research this evening into who he was....
The first Lord Wharncliffe was James Stuart-Wortley-Mackenzie (a triple barelled name) who lived in the village of Wortley 8 miles north-west of Sheffield (in the parish of Tankersley). He lived in the manor house there, which was built by Sir Thomas Wortley in 1510 as a summer house. The Wortley family just died out, with no male descendants, and James purchased the manor and at the same time changed his name to include the "Wortley" name. The house was originally named Wortley Hall, but later renamed "Wharncliffe Lodge". As late as 1822 it was still Wortley Hall, as shown in the Baines Directory of Yorkshire 1822, where James is listed as James Archibald Stuart Wortley Esq. M.P.
James Stuart-Wortley-Mackenzie became Lord Wharncliffe in 1826. This was the first time the title "Lord Wharncliffe" was used. He became Lord Privvy Seal in the administration of Sir Robert Peel (prime minister). (Peel was the person who founded the English police force, and police were commonly known as "Peelers" at the time). James married on 3 March 1799 to Elizabeth Caroline Mary, daughter of John Earl of Erne (of Ireland). The first Lord Wharncliffe (James) died in 1845, and his wife Elizabeth in 1856.
They has a son, who was (imaginatively) named James Stuart-Wortley-Mackenzie (the same as his father), and it is he who became the second Lord Wharncliffe. James also lived at Wharncliffe Lodge, near Sheffield. He also became a polititian, and at the time of his death in October 1855 he was a Member of Parliament and with the job of "Recorder of London". He owned various businesses including the Wharncliffe Brick and Tile Works at Wortley, and he also had interests in cotton, imported from the United States.
The third Lord Wharncliffe (his son) became Chairman of the Manchester, Sheffield & Lincolnshire Railway Company in 1874, and had a major part in the formation of the Great Central Railway Company in 1898 (which promptly absorbed the MS&LR). The third Lord Wharncliffe was a close friend of the artist Whistler.
So which Lord Wahrncliffe is attributed with the design of the "Wharncliffe" blade? - and was supposed to have been a patron of Joseph Rodgers & Sons? There was a company making pen and pocket knives in Sheffield in 1787 (recorded in the Gales & Martin Sheffield Directory), but this was "Joseph and Maurice Rodgers" of Norfolk Street, Sheffield. There were literally hundreds of companies making knives in Sheffield at that time. However, it is extremely unlikely that Lord Wharncliffe had them make his knife, as he was around 9 years old at the time. Furthermore, the "Wharncliffe" name was not in existence until 1826 when James became a Lord.
The 1822 Baines Directory turns up some interesting names in Sheffield - members of the same family as Lord Wharncliffe (Wortley):
Wortley, John & Son, merchants, factors and scissor manufacturers, 39 Trinity Street
Wortley, David. scissor manufacturer, 29 Gibraltar Street.
So the to-be Lord Wharncliffe had relatives in the business, not knife making, but scissors.
In the 1822 directory there are a whole host of Rodgers family members, each with businesses making knives, but the prominent one is: "Rodgers Joseph and Sons, (Cutlers to His Majesty) merchts. & mfrs. of table knives and forks, silver and plated desserts, pen and pocket knives, razors, and scissors, 7 Norfolk Street". It is hardly surprising therefore, that our to-be Lord Wharncliffe (still named Wortley) but a member of Parliament and with relatives in Sheffield at the time who were making scissors, would have some connections with the Rodgers & Sons company.
The only thing that we have established so far, however, is that the "Wharncliffe" blade cannot have been invented before 1826, as there was no "Wharncliffe" name until then, when James became a Lord Wharncliffe.
The first real reference I have found so far to the blade, is a near-perfect "copy" of the Wharncliffe bladed Case Seahorse Whittler in an Unwin & Rodgers illustrated advertisement in 1852.

[Clifford_Parker]

I have to agree Tom. For a beginner, learning how to make the different cuts is hard enough without changing knives frequently. I used my Murphy exclusively on my first carvings and, though I now have a number of knives, I still use it most.

Once a carver has some experience and has learned the basic cuts then they can add a roughing knife, detail knife, or whatever style they feel the most need for in their style of carving.