[Alice in Wonderland]

I have tried reliefs and I get into an argument with my husband ,who tells me all what you need is 1/2 " ,but I start with 5-6" and maybe an 2'by 5'piece of wood how do you get it looking that it has depth if you have only 1/2 "???
I have to learn a lot please advice how I can get the deep looking relief??
Alice

[Thor]

Hi Alice,

There are lots of different styles of relief carving. Have you seen a style that you particularly like or admire? Ron does some wonderfully deep looking carvings with a multi-layered rough out that he can probably describe to you.

My reliefs are all only about 1/4" deep in a 3/4" thick board. I think it has more to do with the lines, textures and shadows than the depth in many cases. If Mark Y answers this, he'll remind you to look at the face of a coin. They are wonderful examples of depth achieved by lines and shadows.

A drawing can show depth with only the perspective being done well.
The Fiddler, by tnartist58 in the works in progress section shows a great deal of depth in his composition. Even as a drawing, he accommplished this.

Does this help? or am I confusing you.
thor

[AlArchie]

Alice, low relief can be done on fairly thin stock, but 1/2" stuff is probably a mite thin, although it could be done. This type of relief relies more on perspective, viewpoints, and shallow undercuttings to get the impression of depth, than actual depth of the carving.

Perspective and undercuttings are fairly self explanatory, even though perspective can be somewhat tricky in relief.

Viewpoint is another thing, and it will affect your use of perspective to some degree. You should consider where your viewers are going to be looking at the carving from when you do the work. If the piece is to be hung on a wall, consider tthat the viewer will probably be looking at it from slightly below the center of the carving, so you want to carve it from that view point.

A hanging relief carving forces the viewpoint on the observer. If you are planning on doing a carving that will be seen on or part of a table top, for instance, the viewpoint will change as the observer moves around the carving, and getting an effective carving for this type is a bit more than I care to tackle.

Here is a site with some very shallow relief carvings. I've taken several classes from the Stenmans, now, and they do an excellent job of explaining the shallow relief method Elaine has developed. Check their site and see some of the carvings. Very few of these are more than 3/8"deep, and most are probably around 1/4". I think they have an instructional DVD out now, but I don't see it on their site. You might drop them an email and ask about that.

www.stenmanstudios.com

Susan (L.S.Irish) from this site has some excellent patterns and tutorials on a slightly different type of relief carving. Same basic subjects, but a whole different approach to the genre. Check out her site also.

www.carvingpatterns.com


Al

[Eddy Smiles]

I've only done a few reliefs but I have to agree with Thor... It really depends on the object that you are carving and how deep the lowest level lays. The basswood planking that I buy is a full 1" thick so I've never tried to carve anything any thinner. But from what I have carved I don't see how I could get away with anything much thinner. I really like to see depth and projection in my carvings.

[squbrigg]

As the others have mentioned, the 1/2" may be a bit thin, but you can use it if you are only doing light surface carving, shallow relief carving. I prefer to go deeper, so prefer to use 2" or 3" board whenever possible, a minimum for me is 3/4".

With the thicker wood, you have much more flexability, to create much deeper shadows and undercut. Shadows are an important part of your objective, they allow you to create the illusion of depth and distance. A 1/2" board only allows you very limited options, very limited depth and not much room express yourself.

Bob

[Irish]

Alice, you already have been given some great explanations above so what I will add are some simple definitions that might help here.

There are five terms that all seem interchangeable but mean very different things.

Low relief - High relief - Shallow relief - Deep relief - 3-D relief work

The terms low and high relief define how you, the carver, threat the edges of your elements. In a low relief you simply round over the edge of each area until it touches the element below. So that side gently rolls over and down into the background and you can clearly see the joint line between the two elements.

A high relief uses undercuts. You roll the edge of the higher element so that it creates a shelf above the lower element. That undercut shelf casts a darker, stronger shadow than the rolled edge of the low relief. And that darker shadow gives an optical illusion of depth to the designs that really isn't there.

Shallow and deep relief refer to how far down into the wood you carve. A shallow relief can be done is less than 1/4" where a deep relief might go down to 2" inches or more depending on the thickness of your wood. You can shallow carve a 4" thick stock by only making your deepest cuts at the 1/2" depth. And you can deep carve a 3/4" stock by cutting down to 1/2".

The difference between the two terms, shallow and deep, refer to how much wood you eat compared to how thick the stock is.

Then there is 3-D relief. That's really 3-D carving that has one flat surface or flat back.You can take a acanthus leave design, cut it on the band saw then carve each leaf so it intertwines with the other leaves. What you end up with is a 3-D dimensional carving with one flat side ... not a relief carving.

So .... chose how deep you want to go, usually this is no more than 1/2 the thickness of your stock to avoid cupping. Then decide how you want to treat the edges of your elements - roll over or undercut. That determines what style of relief carving you are doing. Or ... go 3-D with a flat back.

Hope this helps.

Susan

[Ron Davidson]

If you want an example of a shallow relief look at the carving of the covered bridge that is in my gallery. I had several people comment on how I got the entrance to look so deep and being so shallow. If you look it has to do with the angle and the undercut that creates a shadow and the illusion of being deep. And believe it or not I can also feel the same as you see it if I follow along the road to the entrance. So to me it also and I think Susan will agree is to create a visual illusion that you can also feel with your hands.

Example I did a demonstration to a seniors group that included anywhere from some seeing enough to drive and several that were total blind like me. I took 8 of my relief carvings some on 2" stock and some on 1" stock including the mill scene which I recently completed. I passed these out one by one after describing what it was I tried to create and much to my surprise I did not have one person that couldn't feel or see the picture. I know the sighted ones did but the blind individuals would ask about things not mentioned they could feel like (Is this a rock etc). This made me very happy because I was afraid I would have to spend to much time on details. I was supposed to speak for 1 hour but ended up answering questions for 2 hours. But to me it is what I want to create is a visual picture and a tactile one. Hope this helps some.


I also booked two more demonstration lectures!
Ron

[Irish]

Ron ... I bet they invited you back to do it again, didn't they? Very, Very big grin on my face. Great way to teach anyone whether sighted or blind, Good Sir!

Susan

[Ron Davidson]

There were people there from other groups that want me to come speak to them. I kind of enjoyed getting them interested. Had several that want me to teach them. Not sure I want to do that though but will think about it.

[Alice in Wonderland]

woooo thanks everybody for all your help I really appreciate this ,since my "big carving" days are over? :-(( I have to do something else and I think deep relief is my first choice anything really as long as it is wood ,I have some beautiful pieces of Poplar 3'-2' -4" .
I will print out your advice so I have it in front of me.
I have one problem I have a hard time to remember lines I have to look 100+ to get it right , so it probably will be free style or something like that.
Ron I have seen you covered bridge and really liked it.
Thanks again
Alice
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