undercuting and tight spaces.

NewWVcarver · #1 07-08-2008, 06:10 PM

I am a kinda new deep relief carver, and have very minimal tools. the last couple of carvings, the current one i am working on, and the next one i am going to be starting, have all had tight spaces and deep undercuts. The main obstacles have been between and under branches on large trees and also under shaped fences. land scape relief is my love and i am getting ready to by a couple more tools. I think i am going to purchase a set of dog leg chisels. I am also getting a detail knife. My bench knife and chisels are too bulky to get down where i need to get and make any sort of clean cut. Does any body think that these are some good tools to get next, or are some other things i should invest in. i am also going to buy a couple more books as well. any recommendations. the only relief book i have is "landscapes in relief" by laura Irish. i could keep going with questions all day.

Paul_Guraedy · #2 07-09-2008, 07:01 AM

You did not list the tools that you currently have on hand so making tool recommendations would be something of a shot in the dark. So, I will just say that the tools I use most for undercutting are: a detail knife with a thin blade and coming to a long sharp point, flat gouges (1/4, 1/2, 3/4 inch) and an Ashley Isles hooked skew (also known as gonzales tool). There are quite a few books on relief carving available through WCI. I would just pick ones that have a subject along the lines of what I like to carve.

Irish · #3 07-09-2008, 09:28 AM

Hi New WV Carver!

You can't go wrong by adding a dog leg chisel to your tool kit. The tool is a delight for those of us that use the undercut technique in our relief carvings.

I have both a small micro dog leg chisel made by dockside and a large one by Ramelson ... both are very reasonably prices beginner tools.

A wide sweep gouge will also do a great job for you ... and as you are a new carver just filling their tool kit ... this is the one that I would suggest. Unlike a round gouge that is usually has a half circle profile the wide sweep has only a very slight curve to it's profile. So it is one small arch of the circle giving just a nice little curve to the edge.

You can slide the edge of the wide sweep under the upper cut of the undercut to make your second low cut. The sweep gouge is wide enough to make very deep cuts under your tree branches or fence rails.

Now the reason I am suggesting this one for you is that as a new carver you want to add tools that you will use with every carving ... not just undercuts. The wide sweep is great for leveling your background area and removing the ridges left from round gouges or the scratches that can be caused by chisels. I use mine to smooth the surfaces of my main elements when I want to remove the chisel planes.

So I think you will find the wide sweep a double pleasure.

The detail knife is an excellent choice. But please know that this knife is not meant to every be used as a miniture pry bar

It's thin edge is meant for cutting strokes only and I would not suggest that you use it for undercuts as you can easily break the point.

If most of your tools are too bulky I would put a mid-prices beginner's kit of micro tools on your wish list. Such kits usually have five or six different tools including chisels, skews, gouges and v-gouges. They will last quite a while, get you started using some smaller tools. And when you know which tool profile that you prefer you can add a higher quality tool of that profile to your kit.

Hope this helps.

Susan Irish

Hi_Ho_Sliver · #4 07-09-2008, 10:14 AM

when you get down to needing something about an 1/8th of an inch wide....watch for the tinges that come off of street sweepers.....they are good steel and sharpen up just fine....really good for tight places....I made some straight chisels, some skewed...I use them all the time for one thing or another and they are cheap lol......

DiamondWillow · #5 07-09-2008, 01:34 PM

Dave,
Just see you comment on the street sweeper thinge's...Just to thank you for the ones you gave me. I have made 3 chisels out of them already and there will be more made. Hey, they really work good. Thanks for the good tip and the gift.
Gene

chuckt · #6 07-09-2008, 02:58 PM

Maybe I am wrong here, but I was under the impression that spoon gouges were designed for exactly this type of work.

Like these by way of example (there are other manufacturers and I am in no way affilitated with Woodcraft): Spoon Gouges - Woodcraft.com

They come in a variety of widths and sweeps. I don't see how one would get into these types of areas with a knife and be able to remove wood cleanly. I'd think you'd just end up slashing that area up. But maybe I am visualizing this all wrong.

ChuckT (the curious)

mdallensr · #7 07-09-2008, 08:59 PM

NewWVcarver, I just bought the Drake undercutting tools from Pfeil and the skewed spoon gouges. Both types of tools are supposed to be good for under-cutting relief carvings. I haven't tried them yet but will soon. I'll let you know what I think of them. Mike

Irish · #8 07-10-2008, 02:38 AM

ChuckT,

All I was saying is that the wide sweep gouge does not have one specific use like the dog leg chisel. Because it is a more versital, all round use tool it might be a better investment for someone just starting into carving.

Now that's just my opinion and my opinion and 50 cents won't buy you coffee at MickyD's! It's just one idea, one suggestion and I am sure there are many other and even better ones.

Susan

chuckt · #9 07-10-2008, 07:07 AM

Hey Susan -

I wasn't questioning your opinion. I hadn't seen anyone mention a spoon gouge (different from a dog leg) which from my reading (not experience) is what I thought was usually recommended for this type of thing.

I was trying to understand how one would use a straight blade (knife or gouge) in a tight area to cleanly undercut. Which - I suppose is not an easy thing to explain or demonstrate in writing.

It certainly is a valid point to consider a less specialized tool for a new carver that could be applied across more types of carving.

Sorry - I really meant no criticism of your suggestion, just trying to understand it.

Regards,
ChuckT

Hi_Ho_Sliver · #10 07-10-2008, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiamondWillow

Dave,
Just see you comment on the street sweeper thinge's...Just to thank you for the ones you gave me. I have made 3 chisels out of them already and there will be more made. Hey, they really work good. Thanks for the good tip and the gift.
Gene

You are welcome Gene, glad you could make use of them..........have lots more if you need them