[Mottles]

Hi Al, just wanted to say enjoyed looking at your relief and I think you should do more!
Kathy

[Lynn O. Doughty]

Al......On the subject of perspective, go to Google and do an Image search of the name "John Engler Woodcarving". You will see some nice relief carvings of log cabins, Churches, etc., with real good perspective views.

[AlArchie]

Lynn, thanks for those sites to check. John has some exceptional works and his cabins barns and churches are inspirational. There is a great difference in his approach to the cabin/barn perspective and that of the Stenmans. I asked about the divergence lines when doing this last piece with Fred and was told that the straight frontal plane style was what they used and that the perspective was developed more with the shading and top undercuts than with the generally accepted divergence lines.

If I choose to do another scene with a building in it this time, I think I will insist on trying to use a little more of the standard perspective methods.

Fred's method may be more designed for the beginner's skill level, than for more experienced carvers, and it is that style that Elaine uses when she turns out her carvings for sale. It is probably faster for production purposes, and except for a tuned eye, passes the test quite well.

I don't think I'll ever acqire the painting skills of Engler, though, and will most likely stick with the more mundane acrylic washes that I'm used to.

I am really hesitant with both blade and brush, and tend to poke along and procrastinate a LOT. But someday, I will attempt to follow one of your tutorials, but I think I have in mind some of the Paul Bunyan characters more familiar to the "Logging Community" around our area than the cowboy themes you do so well.

Thanks again for your input, and for those excellent turorials!

Al

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

Al I learned the "standard" method of perspective and it comes second nature after awhile, I do suggest you try it and if nothing else, do some simple little doodles while on the phone etc....draw a horizontal line (the horizon) draw a vertical line in middle of page (any height), connect the top of the vertical line both left and right to the ends of the horizontal line, now do the same with the bottom of the vertical line connecting the bottom left and right to the end of the horizontal line. Now draw another vertical line an inch or so to the left of the first vertical line and another vertical line an inch of two to the right of the vertical line.....you know have the front and side of a box, or building beginning if you prefer. Thats the basic and everything adds to that, all lines ends up at two vanishing points on the ends of the horizon. Did I get carried away or does that help?

[AlArchie]

Dave, I'm fairly well familiar with the "standard" perspective concepts, and have used them often in developing sketches. Stenman's approach was quite different, although if you check the church in the background, I used more conventional drawing principles, there.

Looking at Freds patterns, one reason they may use the frontal plane and then develop some perspective through shading (it really works) is that in order to achieve a perception of depth with converging lines, they would need to have a wider vertical area on the drawing allotted to the cabin's footprint. With just the frontal plane, there is only one secondary "horizon line" for the placement of the cabin, although I think a single secondry "horizon" behind the cabin would serve as well.

I think this is merely a difference in styles, and as I am sort of looking to develop my own "style", I asked for these different critiques. Kinda figured I'd get a wide varianc of input, which is what I wanted. When next I meet with the Stenmans I'll have some options to propose to them to help me develop a style of my own.

Al

[AlArchie]

I was just going over Fred's instructions (my notes) and found another reason why the straight-line face on the cabin works, although it doesn't show up in a 2d picture.

The line across the bottom of the cabin is parallel with the frontal plane, but from the front most vertical corner on the cabin, both outside wall faces and roof planes actually taper back slightly toward the back of the carving.

It works, but I think I'm going to work with Fred a bit on converging perspective lines in the next class.

That same technique was used on the church but for some reason, that is more obvious, there.

Lots to consider and thanks again to everyone

Al

[Irish]

Al, when is your next class? You noted that it was 'new month" in an early posting. I was wondering when we will get to see this years landscape

Susan

[AlArchie]

Guess I meant NEXT month...my keyboard got coffe spilled on it and it's been stuttering pretty badly. Pulled it apart amd fixed it on Thursday, so hopefully no more stttttttuuutttters. Any more oopses and it's my clumsy fingers on the keys!

Just buttoning up the details, Susan, but the class is scheduled for Aug 19, 20, and 21. So far a good turnout is expected...we have several people signed up from over near Marquette and a few from the Ontonagon area. Sorta turned from a club session to a regional doings!

Al

[Irish]

Well, I am excited to see what you do. PLEASE take lots of photos while you carve that you can share with those of us that won't get to a seminar or carving session this summer.

Susan

[don]

I know I'm pretty late replying but the only improvement(?) I see, is the knot hole in the tree is too directly under the branch that is there. It would be unusual to have 2 large branches that close one above the other.
I love the way you coloured it, both the edges bleeding in and the shades of green and brown. If Susan haden't mentioned it and given such a good example I would never have thought of additional detail for the road in the foreground. A very nice work ,I think.