On Topic! Bill of Rights

[Irish]

There is an old adage in our country (the US) about "getting on your Soap Box". This terminology comes from our Bill of Rights and our right to free speech in our nation.

Now ... one of my little stories ...

We do not, under the Bill of Rights, have the right to say whatever we want to whenever we want to, no matter who it hurts - that is a Myth.

We have the right to express our opinions, ideas and even to protest as long as it is on open public property, is neither liable or slanderous, and as long as it does not insight a riot or cause physical harm to another being.

This right extends only to public domain. The rights of a Private Property Owner out weights the right of an individual to express their ideas … meaning … You can scream FIRE to your hearts content in the middle of the public park but you sure can not inside a theatre!

So you have the right to protest - loudly - a law or court order or court judgment or a political ideology and even to express your religious ideas. But you do not have the right to do so inside the court house where you will disrupt the processing.

So the court house guard kept a wooden Soap Box by the front doors of the Court House. Anyone who wanted to could ask for that Soap Box, set it up in the Court Yard, stand on it and scream away to their hearts content.

So you can march in the streets, hold rallies in the park and even post flyers to telephone poles (please get a permit first).

You can not go into another person's church and start screaming from the pulpit about your politics. You can't go into a grocery store and hold a sit-down protest about the death penalty. And you can't stand inside the lobby of a Doctor's office and rage about the War in Iraq! In fact you can not go into any of those places and express your opinions without the permission and approval of the property owner!

Basic Facts

1. This forum is a privately owned website. It is owned, operated and the sole property of one entity - Fox Chapel Publishing.

2. It is not a government service, government agency or public property.

3. This forum has one sole purpose - to promote the hobby and craft of wood carving and those crafts that support the wood carving world as pyrography and scroll saw work.

4. This forum is provide to us for our use, free of charge, paid for and managed by Fox Chapel as a free service that we as members need to protect and support.

Simple Truths

1. When you signed up for this forum you made a click agreement with the owner of this website that:

a. You would not post anything that was offensive as Spam, vulgarity and pornography.

b. That you would not post anything that has been determine by our "Bill of Rights" to be disturbing or destructive to the community atmosphere.

c. That you acknowledged the right of the forum owner to delete any post that they believed was offense or inappropriate to the forum members and/or inappropriate to the welfare of the community.

d. That you acknowledged that the owner of the site has the sole rights to interrupt what they consider to be appropriate or inappropriate.

e. That you acknowledge and recognized the purpose of this forum is for the promotion of wood carving by sharing our experiences, techniques and ideas.

2. As the sole owner of this website is located within the US, US laws apply to this forum. You do have the right of free speech in this country, however, under the same laws you can not do so on private property without the full consent of the property owner. Your right of free speech is limited to open public domains.

You can scream "Fire" in the middle of a public street - you can not scream "Fire" in a privately owned theatre.

2. You can protest a court judgment or ruling on the court house steps which are considered public property. You can not do so inside the court room as this is a closed domain.

3. You have the right to protest and to public peaceful gatherings in opposition. You do not have the right to insight a riot, either on public property, public domain or private property.

Now ... what does all this mean .... ????

Thank you for listening!

Susan Irish

[BobD]

Thanks Susan,
That's what I've been trying to say in a much less articulate way for quite some time now...

Bob
EDIT: I think this fits in better in the Message Board Feedback area...so I've moved it there...

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

With the exception.... 4.b didn't exist when most of us came on board.....

[Lynn O. Doughty]

Is this in reference to something in particular?

[Irish]

AH! But it did, Hi-Ho. Only it was not presented in a written out statement.

Ms Smile It was written in the click agreement under 4. c.

That you acknowledged the right of the forum owner to delete any post that they believed was/is offense or inappropriate to the forum members and/or inappropriate to the welfare of the community.

And that is what all of this comes down to - that Fox Chapel and it's designated representatives are the only ones that have the right to determine what is and what is not appropriate for the welfare of the community. And that trumps every members opinion on every subject!

When any of us put Our Opinions over the Welfare of the Forum we all lose.

Susan

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

It doesn't really matter, but when I joined, about 7 years ago, I don't remember seeing any of that stuff, this was a completely different forum then....in fact, while in colorado, I was a guest for almost 2 years because the site wouldn't recognize me? Cowboy

[Irish]

Ya know, Hi-Ho, I greatly appreciate your opinion here on the forum. You are one of the members who's postings I will search out just to check on what your doing when I don't have a chance to participate in the threads.

And I appreciate how much the net and net edicate has changes. Mike and I are celebrating our ten anniversary as website owners this year ... so, we came on in 97'.

When we started on the net everything was done in such a fun approach ... lots of blinking animated gifs, sites with really far out or cute names, people using alter egos as their net personas.

In fact we began here when the main sites were either science sites or news sites and ALL e-commerce people were "really dirty rip off artists just waiting to bounces on the innocent surfer" ... and if you had a commerical website you were bomobed by 'you dirty bum' emails all the time.

And at that time there were a lot of new forums. those forum were more open, more casual, places where anything goes ... and today, they're gone!

I ask you, Hi-Ho, how many forums have you watched, read or even signed up for and how many of your forums have survived?

I've been on knitting forums, sock knitting forums, art forums, genealogy forums, animal rescue forums ... and wood carving forums. Only two have survived the distance .... Bill Judt's WoodCarvers Digest and WCI Message Board.

And there is a veryrealistic reason they have survived ... they both give us some much more room than any other forum to get to know each other and become true friends ... and ... they both will quietly keep things from becoming a fight. How many times have I seen Bill Judt start a thread "Gentle Subscribers" ? Isn't that exactly what BobD does here.

I appreciate the ten years of being on the net and what came before but here I am concerned not about the past ten years but that ten years from now you and I might still have the golden opportunity to still be discussing this issue here at WCI!

Your Friend, Susan

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

I hadn't thought about how many have survived....? I have changed my viewing habits a number of times and a lot of sites, I just forget to check in on.....actually can think of one that was a good one, but porncruds got in and really destroyed it....but the owner didn't make mods of a couple of us that volunteered to clean them out...its still there but shut down...and too bad it was "the " woodworking forum to go to at the time. Some others are very, very quiet but still there....when I first came on WCI...my two favorites were WCI and "Woodburner" but, somehow got away from the woodburning? humm life moves on Ice Cream

[Ashbys]

I do agree Susan,
That we do indeed have many restrictions in this country, including limits upon free speech and our rights , that are listed in the basic foundation of our country.

I agree with the rules of the site and I have no issues with those rules.

That being said , I also understand the fourm here as well as Fox Chapel is not an isolated American company. They sell in many different countries and the fourm is open to all of them.

I understand they are also to abide by the same rules as the host request, which I am sure the majority would do without question. But I think along that same line that a level of tolerance of others has to be maintained. One reason I am very happy that discussons about politics are very short lived here.

When we as American's speak to people of other countries , rarely do we consider that they think or that they believe our Bill of Rights is unlimited, or that we as Americans are greatly restricted in the same freedoms which we preach we have to other countries. They know very little about the functions of our country.

I find nothing wrong in quietly correcting an offensive post, and allowing the fourm host to correct it quietly. But I do think that to make a point of it in the open fourm is something that we should all strive to advoid.

You know two wrongs don't make a right... but three rights will make a left Talking .

Garry

[GeorgiaCarver]

I absolutely enjoy the forum and I have learned so much. I completely support the idea that the "owner" of the site has power over the site, and I believe it should be so. I have participated on many sites for a while but alas, I have stopped participating on most sites because of the off topic, off base (in my opinion) responses.

There are always "trolls" that find a great site and try to sow contention, undermining the friendship and teamwork that has developed. Once they have caused trouble they disapear. It has amazed me that so many get sucked in so fast to rediculous discussions that have no revelance to the topic at hand.

My coments are geared to a car site that journeyed into the land of politics and religion. There was no tollerance for differences of opinion to be shown. I was dumb enough once to join in (bad mistake) I will not make that mistake again, I did not need the grief, I quit.

This site has not done that. I only hope and pray that it does not. Thank you Bob, Susan and others for helping to keep it on track and protect us from the temptation to wade into muddy water.

Greg