[fmallardman]

Here's my first pattern that i'm trying to develop but the one are that is giving me trouble is in the tail area it appears to be too long any thoughts would be greatly appreciated

[mark yundt]

The widgeon has a fairly long pair of center tail feathers,,almost like it's trying to be a pintail.The length here isn't really a problem. The place they're inserted and the height and angle might be a bit high. Some of the angle might be attributed to the attitude you are going after.I'm assuming you plan to add the primaries separately as they really extend at least 3/4's of the way along the tail.Your overhead shot show the start of the side pockets a bit high,,and the side sketch seems a bit on the low side. Also remember on the widgeon the primary coverts are fairly long ,again almost pintail like ,,and the usually extend over the side pockets. I think though the area you need to concentrate on the most is the shape of the head,,this one is carried like a greenwing and not so much a Widgeon. These are fairly agressive bird and your pose suggests an active swimming pose,and not relaxed. This bird has a more pronounced crest starting at the top of the bill,,at times extending almost verticle and giving it at times an almost flat area across the head before rounding over the back. The length and shape of the bill is a bit off as well. Though the seem to have little bills,,this one is too small and short.Their bills do seem to start lower on the head than other birds,but you still have to consider the lower jaw,,and it's angle to the head.The lower edge of the bill doesn't curve up as much as you show it,,they are more flat,,pointing to the actual hinge in the jaw which creates the bulge for the "cheek". If you look at the picture Achaundy posted you can see the shape of the head I described as well as the shape of the lower bill and it's overall shape. That crest I described earlier also plays a role in the appearance of the bill originating lower than it is.A general rule in most cases,but not always true,,ducks lower bills will be parallel to the water when generally swimming around.
The only other thing I notice is the pose of your bird would tend to flatten the start of the primary covert area. Generally too this area isn't that pronounces though does tend to rise up there. What really makes this area seem to rise like it does is the fact that the areas to the right and left of the neck really drops down in a slope. That 's what makes this seem to rise where it really doesn't.
Your top view show the upper and most likely the lower tail coverts and your side view shows just the color separation ,,don't forget to put in the lower tail coverts,,once the very end of the side pockets are filled out a bit more.

[fmallardman]

Here it is tweaked a bit i decided to simplify it some because this is my first pattern and i think i was just trying to get to much detail for a gunner but all points of the matter will be thought about and i'll try to apply them as best i can

[fmallardman]

The post man just arrived with my Patrick Godin Books boy do i need some practice making my own pattern after looking at them

[mark yundt]

Ahhhh excellent choice,,great book! Follow that and you'll see what I was going after.His pattern would make a great gunner as is.
The changes you made though slight,,were significant,,good going. This piece will be all the better for the planning you are making now. Read through the book,,check yours,,and you're well on your way to the bandsaw! I'm thrilled,,can't wait to see what you carve.
Maybe it's just me,,but I think I might double check the height and angle of the tail. Other than that,,your're doing just fine for a first piece and making your own pattern. That is so neat! Now you're capturing the essence of the bird,,THAT'S what will make it work well.

[fmallardman]

Thanks Mark,
I'm going to change the tail angle more i see what your saying it looks like a ruddy being that high so i'll bring it down some and the height of the tail was thought about i was thinking how low it will sit in the water although i guess it will be carve it up and see and chalk it up as experience i'll be sure to keep with the thread until its finished WISH ME LUCK!!

[mark yundt]

You don't need luck,,you pretty much have it all solved. I think you have the right idea about the tail..Drop it a bit,and then you can extend the primaries by straightening that top line to give you the definition you need in that area.Take another look at your initial drawing where the primaries end over the upper tail coverts,,that was pretty much in the ballpark.
Each one of these things is experience.Once you complete it,you'll notice things,,and learn more,,and do the next one just slightly different because you now have some experience to draw on. You're building a good base of knowledge about these birds and how to look at and what to study on any other species you choose to do. Nothing is a mistake,,,only an opportunity.It's much better to simply erase a pencil mark or two than try to correct a partially completed carving. Make the corrections now. You'll be much happier with the final outcome. It will also lessen the tendency to say,,Gee,,I wish I would have done...I should have added a bit more here,,,,that isn't the way those feathers should really be,,,,. The bird will come to a more complete and satisfying resolution for you.

One last thought. You should be able to look at a totally black silouette of a bird and tell exactly what it is. You shouldn't need to see color or feathers to know it's a Teal,,or Mallard. Or a Cardinal vs. a Blue Jay.Having the proper lines will automatically define the species. Learning to see the pieces this way will go a long way towards carving a really fine bird. If you decide to get into compettitions,,this is the first thing they should look for and see. Most of the judging at major events takes place with the judges half way across the room. The most beautifully painted or carved birds don't mean a thing at that level.If the piece doesn't carry the attitude,profile,,and float at the level the actual bird does,,it's out of contention before the details begin.