Looking for neck joint magic solution

[kahunakalai]

I have been carving quite a few years now. In fact more than 20 years. One of my most frustrating nemesis is getting a neck joint in a bird that is not noticable no matter how hard you look. This is not a problem so much in ducks but in large songbirds, birds of prey and shorebirds. I have to confess that this joint quite often turn out to be the weakest part of my carvings. Anyone can help?

[minowevie]

I have read that bondo works great. do mean in blending, or jointing. just a thought. Evie

[Hugh-P]

Got a question, why separate the head on the large song birds and birds of prey. Wouldn't it be simpler to carve them in one piece with the head attached. I'm not being smart here, just wondering, as my large birds are carved in one piece. Although have the same problem with the Ducks and loons that need to have the head carved separately. For the neck joints on the decoys my preference is Quick wood, it seems to work as well as any thing I've tried yet. And you can work it, some, with water and it sets quickly. Stone it real fine, no burning on the actual joint.

[kahunakalai]

Thanks for your comments.
miniwevie I have never used bondo but will give it a try.
Hugh P. The primary reason I use two blocks is the cost. I can bandsaw the head and body out of smaller blocks of tupelo and save. Another reason is head position. I am carving a half size pelican right now that is preening its side feathers. To detail under the throat is difficult if I used the head attached in one block. This bird also has its one wing lifted in a semi open position. A one piece tupelo block would have blown my budget. I have not tried Quick wood but will do so tomorrow.

[Donna_T]

I have used bondo for ducks--joining a 2-piece body/head. I make a slight v-groove around the joint, them attach the two pieces with my usual wood glue and super glue combination, and fill in the groove with bondo, blending it a 1/2 " or so beyond the joint groove. It's easier that just trying to cover a flush joint. The thing I don't know is how long the bondo will last without deteriorating. The oldest duck I've done with bondo is 10-12 years old and it has no noticible cracks, crazing, or separating.

Donna T

[woodchips4u]

I have only been told this and I have not tried this - My standard don't blame me statement . . . Although new in carving - I have been given advice that if you take both parts to the disk sander for a nice flat join you are more likely to have little seam showing. I have also been told that often a screw from below - especially in ducks is used to pull the 2 parts together and that the wood of both joining parts is wet to raise the grain. When the wood is drawn together this "squishes" the wood at the seam and the seam is less pronounced. I suppose that this could in thoery be done through the leg hole up thru the neck and a long screw used or . . if memory serves there are double ended lag screws used in furniture making that I have seen on "purchased" large roughouts that might work better in the neck area and would draw both parts tight on whichever adhesive or putty you use. Personally I would experiment with the double ended lag screw on a few pieces of same kind scrap wood, wet the joing parts, use quick wood, screw together tightly and see waht happens before going to an actual piece. (Favorite line - "poke it with a stick and see what happens!" (Its so fun to be a boy sometimes.!)


I expect also there are better woods to try this on - eg Tupelo would seem to be a good bet over Basswood, white pine or yellow cedar mostly due to the differences in grain, growing environment etc, but honestly I really don't know. . Somewhere out there - some has tried. Good luck

Larry

[kahunakalai]

Here is some pictures. From a distance the pelican neck joint is almost OK. However, the closeup reveals the joint clearly.

[kahunakalai]

Thanks Donna T and woodchips4u I will do some serious experimenting and report about a week from now on this same thread. Keep the advice comming, I appreciate it.

[Hugh-P]

The double ended screw can be made easily from a regular screw that has a long thread. Cut off the head where the thread stops, taper it with a grinder, and you have a two headed screw. As far as the joint being less visible, the screw adds a stable joint, but you still have the same problem covering it. I see in Floyd Scholz book, that he breaks things off (primary feathers) to make them easier to detail underneath, and re attaches them, using a bondo type filler, dosen't detail, just sands smooth, and paints over the joint , detailing the area with the paint brush, and it looks good. I understand the cost of Tupelo is a factor.
Doing a project with a student in my shop, we read in a book published by a professional carver, that the neck joint should be filled with Lepages Wood filler, well don't do it. It shrunk, swelled after a few months, almost impossible to control.
This is the main reason that my birds are carved without inserts or attachements other than the legs, like Kahunakalai, I don't like the joints and as Donna stated, how long will the filler last. Hope someone jumps in here with the magic solution. Cheers

[markken5889]

Hi Kahunakalai,

I use apoxiesculpt, or a similar A + B epoxy, and smooth the joint seam out with that. Seems to work pretty well for me. I also put some Titebond III in the actual joint, just for good measure, or bonding, as the case may be!

Mark