[MHarnett]

Does anyone know of a site on the web that has bird measurements? Most of the bird carving references I have seen advise the carver to go to a natural history museum, if possible and view study skins to get the overall measurements. That is ok if there is a natural history museum nearby and if the bird is a local bird. However, I get several natural history magazines that often have pictures of non-native species that I think would make a nice carving.But since the bird is a non-native or even a non-local bird don't know what size the bird is. Often you can't tell from the photo if the bird is the size of a robin or a warbler. It would be great if there was some reference place on the web that had bird measurements.

Michael

[Claude]

Here's a starting place for you. This is the Smithsonian reference database on birds online... I haven't explored it at all, but it looks as if it might have what you want...

Claude

Search the NMNH Division of Birds Collections

[kenweybright]

Michael,

You might want to take a look at: The Sibley Field Guide to Birds of North America. It contains information on Juvies as well as adult bird. I think is was in the $20-25 range. It is a good reference for field identification of the birds that feed at our ground and hanging feeders.

You may also want to check out Stillerpatterns.com. Gordon has an online catalog if you do a google search.

I hope that helps you a little.

[Hugh P.]

I've had the same problem, looking for bird measurements, bought patterns from Gorden Stiller, just to get measurements, price is right. I've lots and lots of books, bird books, how to books, by Pat Godin, Ernest Muehlematt, and others, I've a book that was put out by people that band birds, not reliable for carving. I've blueprinted dead birds. Its been necessary for me to take each bird as there carved, and find the measurements. Bird eye size charts are available online, just type in BIRD EYE SIZE, In google search, and print it out. As Ken states, the bird ID books are good for the length, and if that fails, email me, I might be able to help.

[Paul_Guraedy]

Bird measurements can be difficult to locate.

There are few books out that are specifically on bird anatomy. When I find one, I purchase it.

When I need a bird measurement it is often something very detailed such as the length of each toe and talon on a falcon.

First I do a search online using several different search engines. A lot of this information comes in PDF format as it is often research at a University.

No luck means I have to try harder. I continue with the internet and contact ornithological sites (they love talking birds and are very helpful). Generally they have put me in touch with someone doing banding, rescue, falconry, etc.

If these fail, I go to Natural History Collections and contact them directly. I give them some background on myself, why I need the information, and list specifically the measurements I need. These folks are very busy so: some do not have the specimens, some have limited staff and cannot dedicate time for informational requests, some do not answer and some are very helpful. I have found that University connected facilities are more likely to assist me. One student was interested enough to measure all of the specimens in their collection and send me the averages along with the max./min., and request a photo of my finished piece. I do try not to go to this well too often as I certainly do not want to dry it up.

[MHarnett]

Thank you all. Each of you have been very helpful and I intend to follow up. Thanks, I appreciate it.

[TreeWizard]

I have a friend who carves the best birds I've ever seen. He has a small freezer in his basement and has all of his friends keeping an eye out for birds that have died from exposure, or hit by cars etc. He freezes them and uses them for measurements and as a guide for painting. He doesn't keep them for ever but just until he can get the measurements he wants and take numerous pictures for feather color and structure.

I had a red tailed Hawk I found in the bottom of my chimney that had apparently been overcome by carbon monoxide and he used it to carve a beautiful likeness.

[Paul_Guraedy]

TreeWizard, It would be a good idea to advise your friend that even picking up most species of dead birds is illegal here in the U.S. Putting them in the deep freeze could lead to fines, arrest, having to hire a lawyer and a trial. This is federal law so is applicable in all states.

[Hugh P.]

In Canada also. The migratory game act carries very serious penalties and heavy fines.
Often museums have specimens that you can retrieve measurements and photos from.

[kenweybright]

That is a good point Hugh.
Wildfowl Carving and Collecting is an excellent resource, also.

If I was a serious, serious, birdcarver, I would also become very good friends with Dean or professor of the Ornithology Department or the Biology Department of the closest college or univerisity in yyour area.

Often times that department will allow you to come in and take measurement of study skins that they may have in their collections.
If that is the case; it is also best to wear gloves, so as not to impart oil from your hands to the skin. Have appropriate measuring tools and be prepared to take plenty of notes.

Also many communities have zoos with aviaries, often times the zookeeper will allow you to pick up feathers from the ground. I have found the aviary to be an excellent photographic area for reference photos.