Woodcarving Ethics......Copying!

[Lynn O. Doughty]

I think a lot of you are missing my point here. What I am trying to stress is that there comes a point in every carvers, artist, writer, or whatever's life that they have to say to themselves or at least they should say to themselves, while I really like that thing done by that other person would it be right for me to duplicate it just as they did or to the point to where my effort could be easily confused with that of someone else. I'm certainly not going to waste my time running down to the copyright office each time I finish a carving. I put that little "c" on my originals to indicate that it is an "Original" by me and by implication it is copyrighted. Sure, that carving might be of a naked lady or look similar to one done by someone else or be an idea that's been repeated a thousand times. But I have the will and the desire that in doing it that it says and shows when it's done that it is something that I did and it can be recognized as such.

In a couple of recently received PM's I was ask how could I make such statements about copying or duplication when I just recently conducted a contest where quite a group of carvers carved the same figure I did and some being in the style of how I carve. That's one I can easily answer. It was MY contest, on MY blog of a subject that I choose for them to carve. While I stated in the rules that originality would play a part in determining the winner it would not play the complete part. I think I made the correct choice and if you asked anyone participating I think they will tell you the same thing. I was also asked what my thoughts are about someone entering their carving into other shows. I see no problem with that as it's their carving. I didn't publish any patterns, etc. to give them a leg up. I did publish a photo of my interpretation of the figure which I based on the figure in the movie poster. If they decided to do the same thing they were free to do so. If someone wins a ribbon for their efforts that's great.

I see thousands of different images every day and when something impresses me to the point that I think I would like to carve something similar I'll snap a photo, make a quick sketch or jot down a quick note to retain it. If I see something in a book or magazine I like I'll tear it out and paste it in notebook for later reference or else run quickly down to the shop because the thought of trying to carve it completely overtakes me. But in doing that I want to make sure that when it's finished it says POW, BAM or KABLOUI as I always hope they do. Most importantly I also want it to say LYNN DOUGHTY! Surely, every carver wants their work to scream out such words and feelings, substituting their name for mine of course. The last thing I want is to be awakened at 3 in the morning by some guys carving up in Minnesota yelling out the words LYNN DOUGHTY . While I'd certainly be flattered I'd rather have the sleep!

If we don't want our work to say our name then whats the purpose? We might as well take up knitting. Not that theres anything wrong with knitting!

[BobD]

That's the point I was trying to make too, Lynn. Like most things in life, people get what they want to get out of any experience. If someone enjoys following tutorials to carve a character and they have no interest in creating their own designs....great! If someone carves the same or a similar project over and over while they sit in front of the TV relaxing at night, which their spouse knits....great!

If someone follows tutorials to learn the basics and strikes out on their own to create the vision of a project they have in their head using wood and woodcarving tools...great!

Not everyone has the desire (or the ambition) to envision, design, carve, and finish original pieces...and that's OK in my opinion. Because there always will be someone out there who does have that desire and ambition.

[LMiller]

Sorry for the sophomoric question: If I sign my name on a piece I did inspired by Lynn Doughty, BrandtR, Myron, or Micheal Angelo -- even if I did my very best effort to copy the details completely as my eye saw it and my hands created it -- would someone believe I had violated copyrights??? If I boldly, unashamedly, and literally told the world "I did this!" -- would your rights be violated if I tried to match your original piece?

I find Lynn's work exceptionally inspiring. His tutorials provide some of my best external motivation to keep practicing. I have presumed that I wasn't taking anything away from him to watch and learn from him. I have not yet completed anything even close to the art he creates. But when and if I do, I would be 'pop my buttons' proud to sign the piece as something I had done.

So, my question as posted above, do I violate copyright, cross an ethical line, or insult the original creator if I attempt a copy and sign my name?

LMiller

[jpittssr]

Lynn, I agree with you 100%
I even go a little further:
I will on occasion buy a roughout, but I like to get one that has a LOT of wood left where I have room to make changes in the design.
Regardless of how much I change it I still give credit to the designer and list myself as the carver,
Gerald Copeland has a design for a soldier that I really like. I purchased the roughout and it was cut so close that I could only do the details and it came out almost identical to his but I gave credit for the design to Gerald. He put over 160 hours into the design and I would fee like a kid caught in the apple orchard if I did not give him credit.
Ed Pitts

[jpittssr]

Originally Posted by LMiller

So, my question as posted above, do I violate copyright, cross an ethical line, or insult the original creator if I attempt a copy and sign my name?

LMiller

Short answer: YES

[pallin]

In recent years I have enjoyed the challenge of carving reliefs based on the designs of M.C.Escher, the world famous Dutch graphic artist. Usually I modify the design as I did with "Carving Hands" based on Escher's "Drawing Hands," but anyone familiar with his work can see my carvings are inspired by his graphic work. Escher didn't do relief carvings, though he did some woodcuts (blocks used for printing). He died 30+ years ago, but his copyrights are still protected by the Escher Foundation. They are only concerned with graphic reproductions of his work. There are many, many works inspired by his ideas. See the link in my profile.

If I were starting out as an oil painter, I wouldn't try to copy the ceiling in the Sistine Chapel or "Starry Night" by that other Dutch artist.

[Tom Ellis]

I might be mistaken, but I thought that Bob D had a post while back saying that you can copyright illustrations, and patterns, but that you can't copyright a carving.
After following Lynn's videos I personally have been inspired to try some of his carvings that before that, I thought would be absolutely impossible. I PM'd Lynn, and after not getting a response, went on my merry way making chips.
I guess that was the wrong thing to do.
I guess the moral to this story is that if you carve something that looks like Lynn's work, whatever you do don't post a picture.
I don't sell any of my carvings, and personally enjoy all that I have created, and I believe most of us are inspired by someone elses work. I for one can't even draw a stick figure, so have to rely on a visual of some kind.
Now that Lynn has stated that he doesn't want any one to copy his work,other that the videos, I for one will not be posting any more pictures.

I tried to delete my last post but do not see a way to do it, so will be asking Bob D to do that for me.

Tom

Tom

[Ed Redwine]

I can't remember a thread I've read or followed with more interest in recent times. It's easy to see what Lynn is saying. A lot of us follow his blog and tutorials with great intensity in an effort to exceed our own expectations. His work has given a leg up to many budding carvers and some, gratefully, have acknowledged the help. Once the technique is developed, then it's time to step outside the box and stir one's own creative juices.
Carving a roughout is great practice and gives rise to interpretation by the carver. Larry Yudis once had a generic blank available and then challenged about 10 or 12 CCA carvers to make something out of it. The diversity and originality from that common blank was amazing and astounding. In other words there were not 12 copies of the same thing but rather some original design and thinking went into the process. Each was markedly different.
Copying something, (like Jeff Phares Indian with Wolf Mask for example), seems to show up in competitions all across the country. A lot of them with ribbons hanging on them. I really don't understand how these pieces are even allowed in the show but they continue to show up.
Our club members are very good at acknowledging whose blank or idea their Show and Tell belongs to.... This was from a Stu Martin blank... or this is my interpretation of an Enlow pattern etc. etc.
Personally, I don't possess the talent to copy Lynn down to a T and I don't want too. I just want to learn from him and then use what I've learned to do my thing.... whatever that is.
Great thread.... I'm glad it finally surfaced.

[LMiller]

Originally Posted by jpittssr

Short answer: YES

GULP!

I guess I better hurry up and finish perfecting a style all my own that everyone will recognize then...

Thanks all for the help in understanding this.

LMiller

[Merle Rice]

Whatever happened to the saying that " Imitation is the Higest Form of Flattery" ? Just Wondering. Merle