Woodcarving Competitions- A couple of questions!

[Lynn O. Doughty]

At a recent woodcarving show, a competitor won a couple of blue ribbons by entering pieces made from a modeling mixture of glue and sawdust. These competed against hand-carved pieces from other carvers. Is this fair?

What about power carving with burrs and other grinders vs. knives and gouges? What actually constitutes a "woodcarving"? Should there be separate categories for pieces done completely by hand or power?

There is a custom in woodcarving where the husband does the woodwork while the wife handles the paint or vice versa. I have no objection to this. It's great that two people can team up to produce something together. However, when this type of piece is entered into competition is it fair to those who do the entire project? Should there be a separate category for "Joint" or "Committee" carvings??

I note that there are now separate categories for carvings done from Rough-outs but also note that this type of carving still finds it's way into the regular categories.

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

I agree with you...but as for the rule on roughouts...I don't understand that at all, we all "roughout" our carvings, and most of us bandsaw the blank to start with?

[Lynn O. Doughty]

Roughouts are those things that are "spindle carved" on machines, i.e., 80-90 percent of the work is already done by the machines router tip.

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

ok......guess that would make a difference, I have just called all cut out designs "roughouts" Apple

[mdallensr]

We've debated this issue several times, with some really great comments from our members. If you're a carving "purist", you might believe only edge tools should be used to carve, and power tools shouldn't be used. That rules out even the band saw or scroll saw. You could argue we should all cut our own trees, dry our own wood, etc. Maybe we should plant our own trees,..... Nah.

Most of the controversy stems from the carvers falling to reveal the facts about their carvings. If everyone gave credit for using another's pattern, that would eliminate a lot of complaints. If others gave credit for "group" carvings, that would eliminate another group of complaints. If judges created a couple of special categories of absolutely unique, original designs, executed by only edge tools and the others power tools, maybe that would satisfy those who object to "carve-by-numbers" competitors.

I think one of the tough calls the judges have to make is rewarding people who carve and exhibit, encouraging those who haven't built the courage to exhibit yet, and penalizing some who bend or break the rules, or are even ignorant of the nuances in the rules.

I know some carvers who quit competing because of the fuzziness of the judging; sometimes lax, sometimes nasty, sometimes arbitrary. Let's face it, you don't have to put much prize money on the line to make some folks deadly serious. Carving is supposed to be fun, and most of us on this message board border on evangilists for carving, so we may have trouble understanding the competitive nature of our art/craft/hobby.

[Kenny_S]

Mostly this type of stuff takes the fun out of carving. Not that I disagree with all of you.
I carve for the fun and excitment I get from it as well as others enjoying something I have carved out of wood.

I don't enter competions for several reasons. One, I am not that good enough of a carver to compet, two, the "fuzziness of the judging" and probably a lot of other reasons. Been to many different carving shows and some highly talented known carvers are judges but see no ryme or reason for their choices. Maybe it is how bad or good of a day they are having. I have seen some carvings that should not have been judged(to me) but are winners.

So, Me and the little bride goes to these shows and view some fine or not so fine carvings. Hint, look at the Chip Chat and some of the carvings that have placed compared to others in that field.

Nope, No comp for me.

I can understand the problem tho!

When carving stops being fun, I stop carving!

[Mitchell]

Judging is often very subjective and many times the "fairness" can be questioned. I have judged a few times and believe me - it's VERY hard. Many times I have questioned myself after-the-fact. I try to use some guidelines to keep it as objective as possible, but there is not really a standard for judging to be used by different shows - or even within a show.

Smaller shows can be as much a social event as serious carving events and judging can lose some of it's professionalism.

A little closer to the topic...
Many shows will indicate that the pieces must be all wood with an allowance made for glass eyes and feet (on birds for instance). Some high quality shows will not even allow metal for the feet. I have also noticed some "rules" specifying that the work must be completed by the artist....but this is not always stated.

Roughout categorys are generally kept separate because the DESIGN work was performed by one person and the carving effort was accomplished by someone else. Some times, the end result does not even match the original design intent - but the overall proportion was designed by someone else and that credit should not go solely to the carving artist. It's difficult to "police" this and the end result is there are often rough outs entered in other categories. Some clubs have stopped having a rough out category and allow them through out the show. When being judged, there should be some deductions for creativity when judged against other pieces - assuming that some sort of standard is used in the first place.

Technically - It shouldn't matter how the end result was achieved - power, hand tool, etc. It's the end result that matters.

And that brings me to the first item - sawdust and glue......I honestly don't know what I think about that. Technically, it's still wood and it's carved. However, part of the "art" of wood carving is being able to take wood in a natural state (I added that as purely opinion) and use the physical characteristics of that wood ie. grain, color, etc. and make something with it. I suppose it would be up to the individual club or show to make the final decision.....Ultimately, I would vote for allowing it to be entered in a show (if it came to that point) because I value originality.

[Goody]

I just was a judge at a show recently. In the novice catagory there were two pieces that were exceptional one was a bear standing on rocks and the other was a bluebird. Something bothered me about the bear and the other judges were atament that it was a blue ribbon. I always study up on the commerical roughouts and whos been teaching what in classes. There was internet access at the place were the show was held and I found the exact carving on a comercial site. Under the tape on the bottom were the chuck marks from the roughout machine. The blue bird took first and went on to take second best of show. After the show we were packing up to go home and I seen a lady carrying the carving and went up to congradulate her. She went on to tell me that this was her husbands piece and it was the second time it won. He carved it in a class and it was entered in advanced at another show and she was mad because she thought it should have taken first. We had a catagory for pieces done in a class that this should have been in.

I am one of those carvers that let compititon overtake me. I was carving to WIN! The stress built up to the point I was always on edge, rushing to get things done before a compitition, my creative aspect was taken over by accuracy, and I quit carving after winning in two compititions and losing in a third. When I asked the judge why the answer was You already won two compitions, Give someone else a chance! His son took first place.
I realized after a while that I missed carving but I didn't miss competing and started carving again. Recently some one that I got started into carving brought a best of show ribbon to me. Said he wanted me to have it. I had never seen the piece that was entered and was doe all on his own. I couldn't accept it but did take a picture of it and gave it back to him. That was something he earned on his own I just guided it toward it. But I will tell you something I was more proud of that ribbon than he was.

Since I have convinced my wife that she could paint, she has taken my carvings to whole new level, she has become an artist in her own realm. We do not compete with any of our joint efforts.

You need to depend on peoples honesty to an extent but how do you judge a show any more. If we don't have shows and compitions our carvings as an artform will die off. We can only hope to write fair rules have fair judges and honest people! I support shows and always try to put carvings we have done on our tables. I am proud to display our carvings and when people now say Wow That sould have been In Compititon, I reply, Thank you very much, but thats ok i perfer not to compete. Not that I don't want to, but being fair there there is no catagory that we fit into.

The Goody's

[Mitchell]

I have won ribbons on carvings that I didn't think were better than some others that didn't get them, and I've had nice carvings that were apparently ignored. I learned a long time ago that carving (for me) is a personal enjoyment first. I like entering competition not to get ribbons (at least primary), but to have others look at my carvings and discuss them. Hopefully I can get some feedback to improve my carving skills.

To link this back to Lynn's original question (indirectly), talent should be rewarded. There's artistic talent in creativity and craftmanship in actual carving skill. The true artists combine the two to make exceptional pieces of work.

I would advise any carver to enter some pieces in a show. For the social aspect moreso than trying to win ribbons or awards. Mostly - consider it a learning experience.

[Kenny_S]

Mitch,
Can't you get feedback from those attending the show as well. I always ask question on carvings I like and ask about their technigues or how they accomplish what they done.
A personal talk with those carvers is very enjoyable and only once, in Wichita did I have a carver ask me if all I wanted was free advice as he had spent lots of money going to classes. My answer was,' You sure didn't get your money's wroth did you! Then walked away.
I can see where you are coming from and agree to that.