Thoughts & rambling re: critiquing

[slivers&dust]

With all the talk about critiquing pieces lately I wanted to share with you how I’ve gained incite into my own carving by giving my opinion, when asked to critique a piece.

Until joining this forum I had never carved or discussed carving with really anyone, except my dad a few times, who got me interested in it, and I had never given an opinion on one other then good job, wow, etc.

Since joining the forum and picking up the tools again, I’ve been trying to learn how to carve faces. In particular I have been working real hard on NOSES & eyes so I tend to look at them in your carvings. Recently I commented on a couple carvings that were posted asking for opinions, so I spoke up on what I saw. What this did was make me not only study said piece but also my own current project and then push me to back up, for lack of better words, my opinion in my own carving.
What I’m trying to say is, I am also learning by discussing with you guys & gals the “what can I do better here” question. Not only am I trying to “practice what I preach” but also listen to all of your constructive criticism in these threads and apply them myself. There is so much information being discussed here that it makes the forum a wealth of information and a valuable learning resource, some not as obvious as others, but if you look you’ll see it.

Told ya I was just rambling…in fact I would have lost my wife by now so I’ll get on with it.

I’ve posted a couple pictures of my current piece, still in the rough out stages (Marks Mt. Man tutorial) the first picture is the before. Not to bad, I would have been happy to continue with what I’ve established, but after saying “the nose looks to flat” “the hair to straight” on someone else’s pieces, I decided mine was too…So off we go, no fear, its just practice…

The second picture shows the results of lowering and raising the cheekbones, pushing back and adding more angle to the jaw. I also pushed back the mouth, changed the angle of the wings of the nose and increased the depth on the sides of the nose and removed some of the heaviness from the brow to this point.

What I love about this forum is the range of skill and the interaction between carvers of varying skill levels and interests helping each other. Lately I spend more time in a week just scanning the forum looking forward to what’s new then I do carving.

Oh yeah, if you feel led to throw an opinion out, that you see, on this piece feel free.

Thanks for the inspiration to do my best.

[mwilleson]

Looks real good Tony. I pulled the two front shots up side by side and you can really see the improvements. The nose especially looks very good and the cheekbones have nice structure to them. Although the old cheekbones weren't bad...

Good job!

[slivers&dust]

That is a good idea Mike, opening both pic's side by side. So simple, I never thought of doing that. I always past them in Excel or Power point to compare.

Here is what I got done tonight. I rounded over the cheekbone and brought the hair out and also worked the eye socket and above the brow some.


I should post a picture of my first attempt at this carving for comparison there is a HUGE difference. It was my first face this one is my third.

[squbrigg]

Mountain Man.....I thought you were doing a warrior of William the Conquror stepping off the boat before the battle of Hastings! At the very least, a Northman gone a Viking!!!

Funny what others see as a carving developes!

We learn, we try and we have fun. Your efforts encourage me to do different types of carving, just as Hugh's do, or Kenny's, Ash's, Lynn's, Susan's, Goody's, Nancy's, Mark's, Marc's, and many others.

Please , keep posting your progress, I love watching them come together.

Bob

[slivers&dust]

Last night a friend of my son’s was over and he thought it looked like an Old Russian Man or a Santa. I think it’s the hat that make’s him look that way…kind of looks like a mushroom cap at this point. The hair looks like a cape of chain male armor too, that will change...I hope

“Watching them develop”

That is what fascinates me the most about carving and really anything creative. It is the process, watching it develop into something from nothing. I’ve gotten into the habit of photographing my carvings at the end of each carving session. It’s fun to look back at the progress, especially when starting a new one, when your staring at a flat piece of wood thinking now what.

Here is a picture of my first attempt at the same carving. (A good example of what I’ve been learning from this forum) I used the same size piece of wood and they both are at the same stage yet they look completely different. Obviously the first one I didn’t know anything about carving a face, let alone using hand tools instead of power. You can see in the first one I tried to shape the face with power after I got frustrated Sad

I think there is plenty of wood left on the first one to salvage something though, maybe a Coalminer or Viking

[Lynn O. Doughty]

Now this is just my opinion but I liked the cheeks before you rounded them. They added much more character to the piece. Remember, Mountain men had a rough life so they probably didn't eat that good and their faces were constantly exposed to the elements. The gaunt look of the first picture showed this better than the last one. At least to me.

Either way, it's a nice start. I just like them looking 'hungry'!

[Ashbys]

I have reached the point .. I have no thoughts .....

I just ramble ..Monkey

[doris]

hi tony, glad you show again some of your work in progress. to me, that is best way to learn by observing what you did from one foto to next ...
you mention how critique you give for others improve your own work ... to me that is similar, when i look other carvings, i always first look how the area is worked i have most problems with, like nose. how did he or she solve that problem, so i appreciate inparticular if i can view a few inbetween steps to see how get from board of wood to final piece...
i must say, i am very amazed that that fine head you carved, which is now your avatar is only your second head. wow ! i am even more impressed than i was when i watched you carving it...
i have no crituque to offer for your mountain man. it looks very well stage to me, and i do love see the great improvement to your first one. you certainly learned about proportions of human head, and where the bones are... you are way further than me, i tried excately this same tutorial too, my result is pretty poor though. keep going, and thanks a lot for letting us see stages. to me the most valuable input :-)

[slivers&dust]

Thanks Lynn, I’ve been looking at the pic’s myself and agree with you. I’ll try to remove some more wood from under the cheekbones next session. I like the left side, our right, better then the other, seems like one side is always harder to carve then the other.

Doris I highly recommend the books by Jeff Phares “Carving the Human face”, “Nose & Mouth” and “Eyes”.
I must of read through the first one six times and am using it now just to help keep me in line and not head into adding detail to soon. I’m also looking at maybe buying a couple more on carving the head, “Carving classic female faces in wood” by Ian Norbury and “Carving the head in the classic European tradition” by Martin Geisler-Moroder. I may never carve anything from them but I like to read about their techniques and carving styles.
I will also use any device I can find, be it a book, tutorial, study cast or by studying other carvings and pictures as aids to help me out. I’ve not tried to do a carving on my own yet like you are, but I do have a few drawings I’ve worked up to try after I get my confidence built up enough to give them a go. That will be my test

[Irishman]

Tony,

I'm catching up on this thread. Yes, you can see the improvement you made on the nose in your first posting.
The posting with the two side by side...one with more wood and fuller face...I think your viking suggestion could work on the guy with the fuller face. Just peg some horns onto his head and shape it into a helmet. I did notice that you sketched out your mustache on your latest one. You may wish to bring your lines out a bit more as you can always shave in if you find it too think. I typically go very thick...just a personal preference.
I agree with your comments on taking pics of the carving when you hit certain stages. I print the picture, pencil in the changes and take another photo. I found it helped greatly when you see the carving on the computer...and use a program to manipulate the features to give you an advanced look of what it could look like if you removed wood from some areas.
I'm finishing a small woodspirit right now and then the big challenge...the female face. I want you to try one Tony...I'd be curious how you make out. Carving the female face is very...humbling.
Patrick