Shawn Cipa Rip-Off!

[jillsy]

Boy, this makes my blood boil! Angry

I was just surfing Ebay under "hand carved Santas" and there are a few there from the same carver, that are obviously right out of Shawn's book. Now, Shawn may not have a problem with this, but what bothers me is that they're described as "one-of-a-kind" and "unique". The WORST part? The person describing it also says it's DESIGNED by the carver.

To me, this is total fraud. They're taking full credit for Shawn's work and lying to the buyer on top of it. The buyer thinks he's getting a true unique piece of work. Shame, shame, shame!

Jillsy

[doris]

one can sen ebay a hint, with a proof that shawn cipa did the santa originally. they actually will be glad about that... yes, i hate this sort of thing too. happens way too often. i found one of my paintings once too, and was to sell of course it was "original art" of the thief, my heart hurt.

[BobD]

Jill,
I know Shawn's e-mail address is on his site...it may be worth it to drop him a line with the link...

Bob

[jillsy]

Bob, I took your advice and contacted Shawn. He has a number on his website. He's probably like, who's this whacko woodcarver calling me, but hey, there's a total breach of ethics here. Plus, I really like Shawn and his work so the thought of someone trying to take credit for his hard work really burns my butt!

[Lynn O. Doughty]

This will probably start another big argument but here goes.....

While I totally agree with the "Designed by" comment that guy put in his advert about those woodcarvings I can't really agree that this person is taking advantage of Mr. Cipa's talent. After all, Mr. Cipa does profit by selling books which show people how to carve his figures and it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't also teach seminars where he personally instructs people to carve in his style. When carvers teach seminars, sell books or sell roughouts of their figures any copyright claim for those associated figures completely disappears. Now if that carver had signed Mr. Cipa's name to the piece then that would certainly be fraudulent. He didn't do that.

Pick up any issue of Chip Chats and you find loads of carvings that are clearly copied from pieces carved by someone else. Go to woodcarving shows and you'll see similar figures on carvers tables for sale. I guess you could say that, although copied, each is still unique to the person actually carving the piece and, though it might be duplicate of any number of the same carving setting on the table it is still "one of a kind" as it was carved by the person showing it and it probably will be a little different no matter how many times he might reproduce it.

I think we're getting to a point in the evolution of humanity where new ideas get more scarce and harder to come up with as the days go by. There are those who can come up with something new while the rest of us must rely on and follow the paths already blazed by others more talented. I see nothing wrong with that as long as we don't abuse these opportunities. When I started my most recent piece "Distant Drums" I knew that I had seen a picture of just such a subject somewhere in the past. I had thought it by either Fredrick Remington or Charlie Russell but I just couldn't locate it. A couple of days ago my good friend Don Mertz, the Woodbee Carver, advised me that a friend of his had tracked it down. It was painted by Henry Farney and titled "Song of the Talking Wire"! Here's a link in case you want to take a look and compare it to what I did:
http://www.csubak.edu/~gsantos/img0038.html

Now mine, while similar in a small way, looks nothing like Mr. Farney's although I will confess that I borrowed the idea from him. Fortunately for me, I remembered the painting differently than it actually was and my piece ended up being almost completely different than what he painted. Now if someone should later ask me ask me how I came up with that idea I will gladly tell them this same story. I'm not ashamed I couldn't come up with idea myself and I'm proud that I copied his thought and was able to flesh it out with my own thoughts and talent. It would have been pretty hard for me to locate a situation today where a Native American was leaning against a telegraph pole listening to the sound of the wire.

I started my little Blog knowing that there would be copies of my work showing up later by carvers who wanted to try one of my figures or techniques. That's great! I'm completely comfortable with the fact that my personal efforts will still stand on their own no matter how much they're copied or how much information I might be able to pass on to others. As long as they don't start signing my name to their efforts they can set up their table right next to mine and I will be as friendly to them as anyone else. I'll bet Mr. Cipa feels the same way.

[vacation212]

I agree,there is no room for that kind of stuff.
I hope Shawn reports it.

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

Sorry Lynn, can't go along with this one...its one thing to make a copy of some elses work, we have all done that...its completely another to take credit for the design of that work.....there is no honor in that! imho

[Lynn O. Doughty]

Dave....my first sentence says that I too agree that no credit should be taken for the design of the piece. The gist of my argument was that when people sell books, give seminars or sell roughouts, etc., they really shouldn't be surprised when others copy, duplicate or sell something they learned out of one of their books, at one of their seminars or by finishing up one of their roughouts. When you play this game you also have to accept the associated penalties.

[BobD]

I can't speak for Shawn, but I agree Lynn...when you show someone how to carve something, you've got to expect them to make it...and expect to even see it for sale somewhere.

But the crux of the problem many of us have is that one sentence..."Designed by..."

BTW...it took me two times reading through your first post to get the gist of what you were saying...Thanks for taking the time to reinforce your message

[twoclones]

While it's a bit slimey of the carver to claim "designed by", I wouldn't be concerned if the design had come from my book. Particularly since the book was to encourage others to carve that particular design. More of a case of salesmanship than of plagerism.

Caveat Emptor! [buyer beware]

Butch