Sanding Sealer on Green Wood

wade clark · #1 07-24-2005, 10:59 AM

I read on a Chainsaw carving forum that lots of carvers use sanding sealer on green wood carvings, then finish them with spar varnish or other finishes. Does anyone here have experience with sanding sealer on a green carving?
It seems like it would trap moisture in (mold, mildew, rot)...will it let it slowly dry but prevent cracking as it dries?
I'm using Anchorseal water-soluable wax to keep my oak bird chairs from drying too fast/splitting while I'm carving them. It's worked great but my chairs are still covered in slightly sticky wax! I'd like to take them to the next stage. Maybe even to where they could be SAT on!!!
I'm thinking about scrubbing all the wax off and applying a coat of sanding sealer. Also, if I do, can I continue carving and just touch those newly cut areas with sanding sealer? Will it make the wood harder to carve?
I'd like to learn from YOUR EXPERIENCE and protect the chairs and carving.
Thanks!
Wade

wade clark · #2 08-08-2005, 12:12 AM

Hi,
I'm just bringing this up again in hopes someone can prevent me from making a mistake on my chairs. Can anyone tell me if sanding sealer will be a problem on green wood, will it prevent checking, will it harden the wood for carving? I'm also concerned that being oil based, it might be a mistake to burn feathers onto the birds later.
Please give me any input you can, especially if you have experience with sealing green wood with sander sealer.
Thanks!
Wade

BasketballJones · #3 08-08-2005, 08:28 AM

Wade,

Woodcraft sells a green wood end sealer. I think a quart goes for about 10 bucks and a gallon around 20 or so. I've used other sealers (can't remember brand Lowes & Home Depot)) on green & treated wood for decks but not the Woodcraft brand. I believe it would apply to all green woods and I heard it was better for green and treated woods. I do know you can seal green wood. In fact most of the treated deck blanks are green wood. I just don't know if the treatment makes a difference. I also know if you stain a green wood deck the first year you are wasting your time. Don't know why most of these principles would not apply.

Ken

kaiserb · #4 08-08-2005, 10:59 AM

Be cautious when sealing green lumber. It is ok to seal the end grain but you should use an oil finish on the rest of the item. Oil finishes can breathe, where sealers, varnish, and urethanes can not. For lumber to air dry it takes approximately 1 year per inch of thickness.

Quick note from a timber framing site:
What type of finish can be used on the timbers? Our timber is either cut by us or purchased from a mill. We utilize planed timber, hewn, and rough-sawn. Once all the joinery is completed, we make one pass with a hand-held planer on each exposed face, removing about 1/32' of wood for a clean, smooth surface. Other texturing options are hand hewing, rough sawn and sandblasted. Hand hewing and sandblasting can also be done after all joinery is cut to achieve a final cleaning of the surfaces. As a final surface finish, we typically apply one coat of Landark â„¢ oil when a natural finish is desired. The oil finish acts as a protective coat against scuffmarks that may be inflicted during handling, assembly and raising. These can be easily scraped off and re-touched. Other stains, such as whitewash, pickled pine and darker stains can be used to suit individual tastes and needs. All ends are sealed with Anchor Sealâ„¢ to insure slow drying, and reduce checking.

Also see: http://www.timberframemag.com/Timber...n-Finishes.htm

BasketballJones · #5 08-09-2005, 09:03 AM

Kaiserb,

Not to get off the carving topic, but your website indicates you are a bit of an expert. If it's an emulsified product it's an oil and water soluble sealer and it's okay to use on green wood. Second, green wood treated pine posts are excellent deck posts and will last a long time. Please tell me both of these statements are true, particularly the second one. Thanks

AlArchie · #6 08-09-2005, 09:18 AM

Here's another cautionary note.......I'm not sure if there hasn't been some confusion in the term "green treated" wood. Just in case; green pressure treated timbers, decking, and construction material contains highly toxic chemicals and should not be carved, power carved or burned!

I'm assuming that by "green treated wood", we are talking about unseasoned (green) wood that has been treated with pentacryl, PEG, or other grain sealing products, and not the green pressure treated stuff.

Al

kaiserb · #7 08-09-2005, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BasketballJones

Kaiserb,

Not to get off the carving topic, but your website indicates you are a bit of an expert. If it's an emulsified product it's an oil and water soluble sealer and it's okay to use on green wood. Second, green wood treated pine posts are excellent deck posts and will last a long time. Please tell me both of these statements are true, particularly the second one. Thanks

Just to clarify my website is www.eeul.com The other web site is a Timber frame company I looked up when I was trying to answer the question "How to finish green wood (Not CCA lumber)." I used to do wood turning on green wood, that is my only claim to fame in this area.

Regardless of what you seal it with. If it is water-bourne, emulsifed, or urethane based you will run into troubles if it is not breathable. If you seal the wood up you may prevent checking etc. however you will create the perfect place for mildew and mold, which will turn the wood black, and start it rotting. The reason an oil finish, such as tung oil, or linseed oil works well is the very very slow drying time allows the oil to incorporate into the pores of the wood replacing moisture. Oil finish (with the exception of dainish oil, it has drying agents in it that will seal the wood) is breathable. Just ask anyone who left a white ring (from a water glass) on a table top finished with oil. Oil finishes will allow moisture to pass in and out of the piece of wood.

All wood, green, air dry, or kiln dried is trying to reach equilibrium with it's surroundings. A breathable finish is your best bet.

wade clark · #8 08-09-2005, 12:34 PM

Kaiserb,
So if they were your oak chairs, what type of oil finish would you apply to the chairs at this point, and would you keep applying it on an ongoing basis?
I appreciate your insight!
Wade

Ron Davidson · #9 08-09-2005, 06:59 PM

Wade I would not put anything on your chairs that would seal them from breathing. In the thirty some years I built furnature I always had to be aware of moisture content of the wood as i prepared to mill it. I would use an oil of some type to stabilize it. I would think that all the carving you have done has stressed the wood in some areas. So I would think you would not want it to dry out too fast. But as long as you don't seal the wood you should be alright. What you have done so far looks great I would hate to see anything happen.

wade clark · #10 08-09-2005, 09:32 PM

Ron,
Thanks for the insight on sealing them. What type of oil would you recommend for them? I am very happy with how the Anchorseal has protected them, kept them from drying too fast, prevented any checking at all! But it's time for me to start "weaning" them off the wax and using something else that will protect them and not interfere with a final finish, whatever that might be!
Please advise!
Thanks!
Wade