Question about selling

icarve2003 · #1 08-17-2003, 02:09 PM

Hello everyone,

I am thinking of putting together a bit of an inventory for next summer to set up a booth at our local festivals.

One question I have is, if I have a carving that was done using a pattern from a book or from the web, am I able to sell that piece or would that be infringing on the copywrite of whoever came up with the pattern?

I do usually use patterns only as a guide and make some changes to them. I feel guilty about using a pattern that i found and selling that piece, although I guess the pattern is only a guide.

What do you think?

Chris

Captain_Bandaid · #2 08-17-2003, 05:24 PM

I think if you bought a book of patterns, you own it. The profits come from the sale of the book. If you feel that due credit must be given to the artist who made the pattern, sign your name and add 'Pattern by___'. However, if you 'borrowed' a pattern without consideration to the artist, you are on thin ice if you sell the carving.

#3 08-18-2003, 01:53 AM

Don't most books tell you whether it's okay to use the patterns and sell the results? I think I've seen it go both ways.

Ter

#4 08-18-2003, 10:57 AM

Believe it or not, even Michelangelo copied other artists and so did many of the greats. Just don't copy it 'exactly', change an arm, leg, position, etc. I just bought a book on gnomes and lo and behold there is a figure that is an exact look alike in Tom Wolfe's Santa Clause book. The book precededs Tom's by 30 years! Is it a coincidence. A gnome is a gnome is a gnome. Big Al

#5 08-18-2003, 11:24 AM

I read some guidlines on this someplace and they suggested changing your piece by 30% (I think that was the number). Somebody else must have read the same thing as it was in a carving publication somewhere. Help please.

mdallensr · #6 08-18-2003, 01:42 PM

Most of the authors who publish carving patterns expect them to be used, and say so in their books. Some ask for recognition, others only ask that copies of the patterns not be sold to others. I'd have a hard time with myself if I displayed or sold a carving and didn't note the source of the pattern (if the carving wasn't original). If I go to Cabella's and take photos of their stuffed animals, then make a pattern from the photos and carve an elk that looks like their stuffed elk, do I credit Cabella's? They didn't stuff the elk, and who knows who did, so how far do you carry this concept? I think you should credit the creator of an original, copy-righted pattern, particularly if they ask that you do.

The other side of the argument is taking credit for original work when it isn't. We can do that simply by displaying a piece and putting our name on it. So, even if the creator of the pattern doesn't care if we copy their work, should we care? JMHO, but I think we should care and credit them. Let's face it, when someone sees a woodcarving, and can tell it's really wood and not a replica, they know it's a unique item, even if there are others made from the same pattern. The real question is who is the creator of the artistic content?

mdallensr · #7 08-18-2003, 03:01 PM

Notwithstanding my comments in my previous post, do I believe most carvers credit others for patters: no. Go to any local carving show, and you'll see the same carvings done by a group of carvers, since many groups and classes work that way. But everyone of those New England fishermen or Indian chief busts was an 'original'. Most people who worry about those things know what they're looking for, so that's not a big problem for the buyer. Still, for the carver, what's the right thing to do.....?

AlArchie · #8 08-18-2003, 04:58 PM

Just my opinion and not a legal position; if someone sells a pattern, he sells the right to sell the finished product, credit given or no, although credit to the pattern-maker seems fair. Copying and selling their patterns is a completely different story. These folks have spent the time and creative enrgy to design, test and print the patterns and are entitled to copyright protection. Most of these fine folks make at least a portion of their living selling patterns, and it's just downright wrong to copy and sell their patterns.

If a pattern is marketed with a 'design and product' or similar copyright, that should tip you off that no sale of a carving from that pattern is allowed. I've seen both, and the intent is fairly clear.

Al

#9 08-19-2003, 02:35 AM

I see alot of carvings that are clearly based on familiar pattern books. Sometimes, it's too close a replication and in that case, credit should be given to the designer.

If one has taken a pattern from a book and then expands on the idea, creating a unique version, I think they can probably get away with selling it without feeling they have to give credit to the original pattern designer.

But, in the end (just my opinion here), it's best to move away from using others' patterns as quickly as one can, if you're going to get serious about selling your work. That doesn't mean you can't find ideas in others' work - we all do that and it is surely true that 'there is nothing new under the sun'. Copyright applies to the product (pattern or carving), not to the idea.

Teri

icarve2003 · #10 08-19-2003, 07:22 AM

Thanks for the input everyone.

I think I'm on the right track. I've only really done a few carvings that are really copied from a book and I've given them to family members.

If I do use patterns now, I change them quite a bit so that they are sort of my own style. I was kind of concerned about doing a carving based on something I've seen, but I guess theres no harm in that if I have changed it and added my own 'touches' to it.

I've been working on some of my own plans lately. I'd like to post them on my website soon. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again,
Chris