[macktruck]

I've purchased quite a few items from wood carvers supply. Never any power tools only hand tools. I'm satisfied with them, delivery is prompt and i have never had any problems with any of the tools.
macktruck

[squbrigg]

I have found this an interesting thread, in several ways.

One....we have a newcomer in his first post giving a detailed description of a complaint he has had with a product they bought. Having that sort of a problem with a new tool would upset anyone and we can understand where he/she is coming from. New or experienced carver, tool problems can turn you off carving quickly......and carving is suppose to relax you and allow you to express yourself. Unfortunately he/she doesn't introduce themselves or tell us who they are, (except for their member name) nor do they put any info in their profile. I wonder what kind of carving they do, what wood they were using?

Two....then we recieve the other side of the question, a "very" prompt reply from the manufacturer, their first posting as well. It is nice to see that carving tool manufacturers monitor the board as well. Makes sense I suppose, they get the inside scoop on their products from the folks that use them, good business or marketing. Too bad he/she didn't identify themselves either, (other than their member name). Does he/she carve, and if so what?

I don't own a Mastercarving machine, so I can't comment on it, but I have a Foredom and I find it right handy, and I hope it will last me as long as Paul's has. One positive result of this tussel has been that I've been introduced to a new supplier and I've checked out Wood Carvers Supply web site and see that they have the diamond rifflers and files that I need. It's an American company, so I'll check further here in Canada first, I hate dealing with those customs people, they drive the price of buying in the U.S. up so far that it frustrates the heck out of me. So much for free trade!

Well, welcome to both our new members, I do hope you enjoy your stay here with us and continue to be active on the board.......there are some great folks here and I'm sure we can learn much from each other.

Bob

[nadcarves]

Hand piece problem for me...I purchased on of their black handpieces,with the nice baked enamel type finish...I keep on dropping it,or ripping the heck out of the holding hand as it gets away..My right hand is stiff,part of the problem. However the surface seems to be too slick in comparison to the Foredom hand piece.If this is a problem for you as well, 360 grit sandpaper will increase the surface friction...........nad

[big_Wayne_P]

Nad
I got the pic posted for you
It is in the Holliday section

[madmangil]

MASTERCARVER,
There is no signature at the end of your post but I will assume
that you are Timothy Effrem (if not I will apologise in advance
for any misstatements that I will make due to this assumption).

Bob Goad did offer to replace my tool with a demo machine. This
would be a machine that he regularly puts so much pressure on
that he "ties the shaft in a knot" (as he says) at every show.
I have never done anthing close to this with the tool and I still
had problems. I paid for a new tool and do not want an abused tool.
At this point I do not want a WCS tool at all.

Yes, Timothy (if this is you), you did offer to have me send the
tool to you for inspection. So now, $240 worth of tool... add
shipping to Florida, plus the $20 you want for inspection and shipping,
plus the two shafts I had to buy already,
and add to that anything else you might want to charge me for. So that
brings the tab up to about $300 I would say. I do not want to have the
tool inspected.

"Slamming people and companies with misstated facts". What misstated
fact did I post? Are you saying that because I did not mention that
I had the option of replacing my tool with a demo tool that I
misstated something? I didn't mention that because
I thought that my post was long enough as it was and didn't see what
significance it had.

You also tell me that I should ship the tool back to Mr. Goad who will
issue me a refund. He never told me this. The last correspondence
that I got from him was an email and I will cut and paste part of that
email for you to see:

"As I told you in the past. I get a very small portion
of the money for handling the machines as a favor to
Timothy, and a convience to the people that are looking
for a machine. The money goes back to Woodcarvers
Supply. If you would have been at the booth when some
one wanted to write a check. I had them make out the
check to Woodcarvers Supply, not to me.
The only thing I can do is exchange the machine, but
you have to pay shipping, I paid the shippint to you
the first time. As I said I have never had a problem
and I have never had any one else have a problem with
the machine, and I talk to hundreds of people that
have used the Mastercarver. I would buy the machine
back if I did not send the money to Woodcarvers Supply
but as I said the money and checks go back to him"

Does this sound like I can send it back to him for a refund? Not to me.
He only gets "a very small fortion of the money for handling
the machines as a favor to Timothy" (very small minus his expenses).
Does this sound like a dealer to you? Not to me.
He has people "make out the check to Woodcarvers Supply". Does
this sound like Mr. Goad is selling product for WCS? It does to me.

Here is another fact that is NOT misstated. You never responded
to my last email. In case it got lost, here is a copy:

13 January 2005

Timothy Effrem,

Bob tells me that he has most of his customers make the check
out to Woodcarvers Supply when purchasing the carving machines.
Bob never told me who to make the check out to so I made it out
to him, your rep, as he told me. Now, I am sure that you have
some good reason why he is not actually a rep, but what is the
difference who I made the check out to? If I made it out to WCS,
as most of Bob's customers do, Bob would have gotten the same
small amount of money, minus shipping and whatever other expenses,
and WCS would have gotten most of the money (just as usual).

If the tool did not come from WCS, then where did it come from?
Where else could it have come from? Why did you yourself put me
on your user's list? Where (in the catalog that I was given during
the sale's process) does it say that the tool must not be purchased
through a WCS dealer or rep? Are you just trying to use Bob as a
means to sidestep your "money-back guarantee"?

Did you first look to see what name I actually put on the check
before you made the statement:

"If you are in doubt about this, look at your canceled
check or your receipt. We
did not sell you the tool and will not refund money..."

I think that you are using technicalities. Regardless of how bad
I get shafted (hmmmm) by this, do you really think that it is
going to help your business in the long run?

Gil

[madmangil]

Bob (squbrigg),
Thanks for the response.
In response to your response, I did not sign the post because I normally post on other boards that automatically sign posts for me. My name is Gil (as you can see from MASTERCARVERS's post). As for the type of carving I do... mostly I use a lathe, but an interest in carving has been sparked lately. A few owls in avocado, shark out of a clay brick (first carving & interesting to do), ball in a cage (pear), 5 link chain (willow), 8 or 10 tikis (palm, avocado, sumac, redwood). Spoons, forks, knives & spatulas out of manzanita, pear, eucalyptus & whatever. (I guess that I've done more than I thought)
As far as the prompt response from the manufacturer that is monitoring the site... Yes it was prompt, but did he monitor it or did one of his employees tell him about it??? I don't know.
As far as your welcome and invitation to continue... Judging from the quick concern I can see from other members, I probably will be more active here.
thanks
gil
madmangil@hotmail.com

[madmangil]

Wayne (Big_wayne_p),
I am not trying to argue with you (you are not the source of the problem - or any part of the problem), I will just try to add some information that you may need.
Who sold the tool? According to Bob Goad (the individual I got the tool from), he is only doing a favor for Timothy Effrem (WCS). The big $30 that he gets for each one sold, minus his expenses (like shipping) probably won't make him rich. He had run out of machines at the show when I talked to him. He told me that I could order it through him or go directly to WCS, and that it made no difference since he was only doing it as a favor (see the snip from his email in my second post) and didn't make anything on it. He also told me in his email that he normally has customers write the check out to WCS. He also hands out WCS catalogs at the show and uses them during the sales process. I actually thought that his booth was WCS but I was wrong about that. His email tells me that WCS has agreed to handle warrantees - but they never told him about the money-back warrantee. Does this sound like he is a dealer for himself or for WCS???
When I called WCS and talked to Timothy (my first contact with him) he immediately put me on "HIS" users list.
Yes, Mr. Effrem was quick to post a reply (maybe to save face or not lose future sales). As far as contacting Bob Goad, he has told me several times that he would NOT refund any money and that WCS needed to do that. If this changes, my guess would be that WCS is reimbursing him (again trying to save face) or he will use the machine as a demo model. Again, my guess.
There have been several times already that Bob Goad wanted to do something for me and then, after talking to Timothy Effrem, could not. When I bought the tool, I wanted the recipro-carver (package deal just like in the catalog) and he said that he would add it and see if WCS would throw it in at cost. He said that the cost is probably $15 or $20. I got it for $40 which is the normal price for having it added to a mastercarver package (actually $39.95). I spoke to Bob on the phone and he thought that WCS would honor their "money-back guaratnee". Again, didn't happen. The first one didn't bother me.
When Bob Goad tells me that WCS should be the one refunding the money, I agree with him. Regardless of my opinion on that, I don't care where the refund comes from - as long as it happens. Had anyone ever offered me a refund, the tool would have been returned and the posting of the problem here, and on other boards, never would have happened.
Thanks for the response.
gil
madmangil@hotmail.com

[Callynne]

Gil, I'm sorry to hear you are still having problems and for your bad experience, I hope it gets settled very quickly and to your complete satisfaction!!

Obligations over the weekend kept me from getting much carving time in but what I did get to do went very well. I didn't use the big hogging out handpiece again so I don't know if the finish on the handpiece is going to be a problem, didn't notice it when I tried it out the first time, but nice to know a solution if it is, Thanks Nad!

I did use the two small handpieces for about an hour yesterday and like them more and more. Paul, they are a snap to use, literally! What's so great is that both of them take the different size shaft, so it's a dream just snapping in the hand piece when I want to change sizes. No messing around with collets and the twist and lock feature to lock the burrs in place is terrific!

I hope to get some serious carving time in this week and over the coming weekend and I'll let you know what I think then. Callynne

[madmangil]

17 January 2005
Callynne,
Just one comment on your post regarding the handpiece with chuck, as opposed to one that uses a collet. The mastercarver was supposed to replace a die grinder that is on my compressor. I don't like it because it is loud and runs out of power (air pressure) quickly. The fact that it does not have a chuck and I do not have any collets is an inconvenience that limits me to one size of shaft. The chuck on the mastercarver was very convenient for the little time that I actually got on it.
The comment that I will make stems from information that I got from a friend of mine who is a professional carver who used to be a machinist. He tells me to stay away from chucks. He says that a collet will give you better precision. Maybe he is wrong or maybe I never did anything that required that amount of precision. From my point of view, the biggest drawback to collets is that they can easily be lost or misplaced. For this reason alone, I would probably go for a chuck if ever given the choice.
gil
madmangil@hotmail.com

[MASTERCARVER]

Gil and others:



Who I am: I am Timothy Effrem, president of Wood Carvers Supply, Inc of EnglewoodFL primarily a catalog mail order and internet sales company. Most people on this forum probably have seen our catalog and or website and may have also purchased from us. But for those that haven’t, Wood Cavers Supply, Inc. is a 50 year old organization (the oldest in the USA dedicated strictly to supplying wood carvers). I am humbled that many consider us the industry leader for Wood Carving Supplies. I have been the president of this company for the past 21 years and General Manager prior to that. I learned wood carving from my father and company founder, Chris Effrem a European trained master wood carver. In addition to having carved professionally with him I also taught wood carving for a number of years.



Additionally I have been involved in the sales, service, design and manufacture of various tools for the wood carving industry for more than a quarter century. For example, currently I have U.S and foreign patents pending for the technology used in the Mastercarver® brand 792200 Stealth Handpiece. The Stealth Handpiece features a key chuck handpiece that accepts virtually all shank sizes from 1/4" and smaller without collets! This major breakthrough is currently only offered on Mastercarver® brand flexible shaft machines.



I consider most of my employees, suppliers, dealers and retail customers as friends. This is a small industry and most of the major players know each other. Wood carving and the industry is not just a "pay check" to me. It is where I have devoted nearly all of my professional efforts in my life and have some of my best friends.



Gil: Whom you purchased the tool from (Bob Goad) is fact, not opinion. Like most businesses, Bob purchases the tools such as yours at wholesale pricing and resells them at retail. The difference between the price he pays for his tools and sells them is his profit. Bob and I have been sincerely trying to work with you resolve this issue together. We have sent you free parts and spent much time responding your numerous emails (except 1 apparently lost in cyberspace) and phone quires. We did this all in a good faith effort to find a workable solution within normal guidelines.



Bob and I both regret that in-spite of these efforts you are still not satisfied. Regardless of our attempts to this point, the bottom line is expressed in your most recent post. It that posting you explain that you do not want the tool at all and state: "Regardless of my opinion on that, I don't care where the refund comes from - as long as it happens."



I hope that you agree that this issue needs to come to close for all of us. So let’s work together towards resolution. As stated in my previous posting..."I suggest that the next step is to ship the tool to Bob Goad the dealer that sold you the tool. After he receives the tool a refund will be issued by Mr. Goad. "



Also since that last post, off list I have sent you an email giving you permission to bill the return UPS charges to an account so you will not incur any shipping charges.



Timothy Effrem