[Paul_Guraedy]

I am fortunate, I guess, to be a slow carver interested in larger and more detailed pieces. I finish only a few carvings each year. Some I want to keep, some my wife wants to keep, some are carved as gifts, a few are commissions and occasionally I do have one for sale. Thus I have not saturated my market of relatives, friends and acquaintances willing to pay my asking price which is usually in the $400+ range.

I usually carve a couple of each subject so that I can test skills and improvements I would like to make, so do have duplicates. I realized a couple of years ago, that I was keeping the wrong carvings. I was keeping number one while subsequent carvings were always better. I now keep the last of any duplicates….why not the best for me?

Anyway, I am keeping far too many carvings. I can see the day coming (pushed back by building a bigger house) when our home begins to resemble a shop displaying a collection of carvings; to the detriment of the carvings and the many other things that Diana and I have acquired over the years. If I start selling more, I may find it necessary to expand the market.

There have been several threads on selling carvings. It seems that most answers assume that the pieces are numerous and in the under $100 price range.

My questions are aimed at those who are selling in the upper price ranges::
1. Do you market these to a group of interested collectors?
2. If so, how did you build your following?
3. Do you sell by commission and, if so, do you also carve pieces strictly for open sale?
4. Do you have other recommendations for selling in this price range?

[Mitchell]

If you can find an Art gallery in your area, they usually bring high prices.

It's usually commission and the volume is not generally high (which sounds a lot like what you may need).

[Lynn O. Doughty]

To those who are contemplating the prospect of selling their work to the general public should prepare themselves for the biggest obstacle they will almost immediately face:

REJECTION!

No, it's not a pretty word but you'd better be prepared cause it will be one of the first thoughts you'll have. In a way it's sort of like this forum. You put up posts and everyone tells you what a wonderful job you're doing, fantastic, wow, a ribbon winner for sure. Then you enter a competition with all those comments to back you up and guess what? You go to a show and 99 percent of the people briefly stop at your table, take a quick glance, look at you, smile, and then move on. What happend? Everyone said my stuff was great, wonderful, wow! Rejection makes it's appearance.

From you post I can pretty well sense that you value your work pretty highly. Your first question should be why do you think your work would appeal to the high-end collector? Is your work that unique that it will stand out above the majority? If you want a high price it will have to.

If you plan on selling you HAVE to develope a certain style and theme. Sorry, doing Santas then a horse, a bird, a Gnome, maybe a Kowboy or two just won't cut it. A variety of subjects on your table might look real nice but it also shows that you're not really directing your talent to one specific area. Specialize.....that's the key.

It pays to advertise. I have a large group of collectors who buy my pieces but I'm really interested in recognition more than money. Several years ago I put together a number of photo packs and mailed them out the various magazines of a western theme. Western Horseman picked me up and gave me a full-page spread in their Gallery section. Oklahoma Today also called and I got some coverage in the state's tourism magazine. Kowboy's & Indians magazine also gave me a mention and a photo in their Open Range section. That gave me the courage to fork over some pretty big bucks and advertise in Southwest Art magazine. Wow! What a response! While each 1/4 page ad cost almost $1,000 the payback was immediate. I don't mean to brag but out of those efforts I made a bundle but most importantly I got the exposure I was after. Again, it pays to advertise.

Commissions? NO! While I've been foolish enough to accept them I will never do one again. Why? Because I'm retired! I work for myself! I have so many ideas rattling around inside my skull that there just isn't room for someone else's.

Pricing your work: Just remember....Once you set the price and sell a few you can't come back down. Finding that price is really a hard thing to do. Set it low and no one buys, set it high and no one buys. Set it in the middle and no one buys. It will take a while but you'll eventually find the sweet spot. From there the only direction is up!

The old saying that if you make a better product they'll beat a path to your door might apply to a lot of things but it does not apply to woodcarving.

Sorry if this all sounds a little negative but it's better to be aware of all the factors before we jump in the tank.

[mwilleson]

Lynn,

Your post didn't seem negative to me at all. Here's what I heard:

1) Not everyone will buy your stuff

2) By specializing, you will focus your skills and develop your own recognizable theme and style

3) Marketing is key. Identify your target audience and find creative ways to make yourself known.

4) Determining the optimum price may take some time

5) It will take time to develop a following

I think there is interesting information mixed with realistic business expectations in your post.

[Mitchell]

I take it from Paul's original post that he wants to "unload" a few carvings each year - not market himself to begin earning income. That's why I suggested the Gallery (and commission).

Lynn's advise is spot-on if you want to step up to that level. He's worked hard to develop his style and that's what he makes his living doing. However - spending the money to market could be considered the same expense as paying a commission. I think the difference would be on volume.

Since I don't sell (as a rule), I don't really know - it's just a thought for discussion. I do know a gallery that wants to sell some of my carvings (well TRY to sell) but I don't want to move to that level right now - I have a job and carving is a hobby - a way to relax. Based on what I did learn, the gallery would be a way to sell some of the higher priced items that I have and at a low volume. As Lynn states - there seems to be a high rejection rate in that pieces can sit for some time and after a while the gallery will want to return these.

Like Paul, I am running out of room.......

[mark yundt]

I realize I'm in a bit of a different market with the carving I do now,,so I don't really count.But when I was a hobbiest,I ran into the same problems Lynn points out,and those points are valid.The only real difference is in my view of commissions,,I wasn't after the recognition,,I wanted the money,pure and simple.I only did birds at that time, and my first show ,my table was filled with pieces I did for a local compettition.People walked by,nodded,,ohhhed and ahhhed,,great pieces,,nice pretty ribbons you won there,,and kept going.I did sell some pieces,and was happy of course,,but what am I gonna do with all the others.I decided right there and then I would never do another piece and then try to get rid of it.I had them in galleries,,,I was willing to loose up to 50 percent in some galleries on a piece just to get rid of it.But I also felt if the gallery was asking $3000.00,,why should I get only $1500.00?,,I WANT MY 3 GRAND,,,.DARN IT( O.K. it wasn't darn it you know what I mean) Now granted birds and the collectors are different than caricature carvings. No-one knows what idea Lynn has in his head,,but with birds some were looking for a specific species.Some collected just raptors,,some song birds others specific ducks.AHHH,,I'm going to use my other pieces as examples,,to get commissions.One would by any bird of prey I did, sight unseen, money in the bank,,others said,,I like your pieces but I was looking for a mallard,,collect a deposit,,more money in the bank.I used many of the other pieces to "pay" for a table in trade.Arrive at the next show with a table of already sold pieces to use as more examples for future commissions,,and kept repeating the cycle,,No,,,this won't work for all types of carvings.Some are purely a knee jerk response to a customer just having to have your piece.Who really knows what does that since we're all so different in our tastes.But for me,,from that point on,,I would never do another carving without it already being sold,,with at least a 50% deposit on it.That's what will be interesting with the greenman project,,I'm sure I'll take a bath on it.I'll try shopping it around,,but I truly don't hold out much hope.BUT,,,if it was already sold,,I'd certainly get much more ,no doubt in my mind,,probably several hundred percent more.Leaving money on the table annoys me more than dull chisels.And not getting premium prices does it too.A friend said once,,if you get every job you bid,,your too low.Finding the price somewhere between people saying "boy , that's cheap" and "YEOW,,that's expensive" is a tough one,,but making them feel they just have to have it ,,even if it's a bit more than they expected to pay,, cause it's just so sweet,,well ,,that's the right price,,elusive though it is.

[mark yundt]

Another point. Go where the people are with the $ in the niche you want.My first show,,in a mall,,heavy traffic,,great huh??NO,,they weren't prepared for the prices,,WHAT,$500.00 for that bird,,you can get it for $25.00 at U-name-it Mart..Go to a specific show and it's sold.Sure the tables are more,,but the customers showing up, even after paying an entry fee to get in,, are ready to buy,,they're serious.
Another thing,, I wasn't the only bird carver there.There were others with pieces and ribbons from major compettitions,,and we were priced about the same..They'd say on Sunday night,,bad show,noone was buying, how did you do? Well,,it all sold since it was pre-sold as well as a fist full of orders.The difference,,I carved to sell ,, they carved to show.Another motivating factor,,as I was talking to people about my birds and they were looking at them,, I could say,well this one is sold,,as well as that one,,but I am taking more orders bla,bla,bla,,it seemed to create an instant aura of desireability and need.Hey,, this guys selling stuff,,I better get in line. Customers today even joke with me about this,,they know,,to go for a ride , you gotta buy a ticket (deposit) and get in line,,'cause my dance card fills up quick, or you'll wait a year plus to have another chance.

[mark yundt]

Boy,,this thread is really sticking with me.I'm sorry Paul,,but with all due respect I have do disagree with you.Since I have never really advertised,and have depended solely on carving to support my family,my wife never worked outside the house,raising two kids,,through college,I didn't feel I could ever "afford" to have anything less than my best pieces out there.THAT was my advertising.Far be it from me that I would advertise and sell my worst carvings just so I could keep the best? I can carve the best for myself any time.Having a piece just sitting there so I can look at it,getting some recognition,, or winning some ribbons won't go very far in feeding my family or paying the bills.Here honey,,, eat this ribbon,serve it with a few of the articles about me.Dont' worry about food,,just look at the pretty carving sitting there,glad I sold the junky one for next to nothing.I don't intend for this to sound harsh,,but the difference is between a hobby and a profession. My worst pieces are in the attic,, or destroyed,,the next ones will always be better.I have seen far too many carvers collect their own work. Sure ,, as a hobby that's the point,,but if you want to make some money with it something has to change.If you want to make a living at it,,things REALLY have to change.I used to wander the aisles at a show and wonder what it would be like to be sitting on the other side when I started carving.I had an idea of what it would be like,,,the fantasy isn't the reality,,not even close.Most of the finest carvers I know have very little recognition, and they could carve the pants off all of the well known carvers out there.They don't teach,,don't write books or articles,,but have a following that just won't quit,,and pay outrageous prices for their work,,and they make a mighty fine living in obscurity....they only sell the best.

[Lynn O. Doughty]

It's great to have a waiting market for your work. And it's gratifying that people want to commission you to do certain projects. Unfortunately, if you want to do one thing while they want you to do something else then it starts getting too much like a job. People ask me to do certain things and I tell them that if it falls within the projects I've got planned then fine I'll try to work them in and, if it's something I haven't thought of and I think it might be interesting to do then I may even accommodate them further. But an outright commission? No way!

Mark is right about Mall shows. You're not going to sell anything to someone who came to the mall looking for a new pair of lowriders. Oh, you might get lucky but don't count on it. Woodcarving shows? Thats a little better but most attending are woodcarvers and they're just looking for new ideas, a knife or a piece of wood. Galleries? YECH! All they want is their 40-60 percent for basically doing nothing. Besides, they're not really interested. Woodcarving is not considered fine art no matter what you may think. So what's left? Self promotion! And how do you do that? Unfortunately, you have to go to mall shows, craft shows, woodcarving shows, church bazaars, try to get the local newspaper to run an article on you. You certainly won't get rich doing these things but you will eventually get noticed if your work deserves being noticed.

Before I started my little carving venture I made a promise to myself that I would do it MY way or no way. I'm always open to new possibilities as long as they follow the same course I've set and I get to do the steering.

[mark yundt]

Fortunately I love all types of carving and woodwork.I have truly enjoyed every commission I have done,,bar none. And you're talking to a thick headed,stubborn,gotta do it my way,controlling German. Fortunately too,, I don't want to do only one thing,,,did that with the birds.I felt being a one trick pony would get me nowhere fast.So I branched out,,and it helped in all facets of carving.For some I think part of the problem lies in doing the same thing everyone else is doing. Sure they're going to be standouts,,but for the majority,,one santa for example (no slight intended) looks pretty much like the next ,and if you look at ebay,,dozens are available,so how can you price it according to what you have in it,,let alone a premium because it's not unique? I prefer to take that 2 dollar block of wood and turn it into 2 thousand , rather than fifty bucks by not doing what everyone else is doing,finding the right client and still doing what I want,,carving.As I said my journey isn't everyone's cup of tea.Do I get to do what I want,,,yes,,always.Just ask my wife how easy it is to get me to do something I don't want to do...aint gonna happen.
For me,,in the beginning as a hobby , I did maybe 5 shows,,once I went full time, I never did another show of any kind ,no malls, no churches,no nothing,,I went directly to the people interested in what I want to do. I would rather spend an hour with someone interested specifically in something ,than waste weekends at a mall or something with hundreds of people just kicking the tires and oooing and ahhhing.Then again the type of work I do isn't the same as trying to sell one specific type of work,,it's a TOTALLY different market,product,,so the same rules don't apply.I prefer it this way because I couldn't see myself running all around,,attending shows,,answering all the same questions time after time,trying to move some pieces.I tried and felt more like it was an act of quiet desperation.And if it's your livelyhood,,the panic attacks will kill you.I've done alot of what now seem very silly things to do,,hey,, I didn't know any other way, and I guess I had to do them to get where I am today.Panic and fear are great motivators,still are.But over time all things change, as well as perspectives,,what it would be like sitting on the other side of the table,,what I thought a big commission was,,what carving was all about,what kind of a shop and tools are needed,,I think it all depends on the individual,,what do you want out of this,,why are you doing it,, and where do you want to go.You want some fun ,relaxation,and meet new people and share some conversation,,is it just a hobby and if you can make a couple of bucks on the side so much the better,do you want it to be a profession and provide your living???each one has to decide for themselves where they want to go and what they want out of it,,just have fun with wood,,or try running with the big dogs,,,one is really fun,,,the other is really serious fun,,,lay it on the line,,,no turning back,scare yourself half to death, kind of fun.Personally ,,, I wouldn't want it any other way.
The single biggest difference in what I do,,is,,,I don't sell a PRODUCT,,I'm selling a SERVICE.That's an important distinction,,and why I don't fit in with the typical scenario.
I still have a "product" in my shop that looks like a fireplace,,the one on my site,,since that one I've done several others,,on commission,,I'll probably have this one around forever,,I don't know what to do with it,,but I'll keep selling more on order.