how to make a good design ?

[mark yundt]

Lynn,,I don't intend to rearrange the "rocks in the road" .But if you are going to have just a cowboy,,holding a saddle ,,doesn't he have to be composed?
I would think that if you had the saddle hanging off to his side,,shoulders slumped,,head bent down,this composition might lead you to think the long ride is over,,took the saddle off his horse and he's beat dead tired.Or if his head was held up alert,,looking off in the distance,,with almost a spring ready in his body,,isn't he composed in a way that might indicate he's rarrrin to go saddle up his horse and get on with the drive?
Just as my individual statues need to be composed,,or poised ,to convey a certain feeling.
I would certainly be hesitant to just let the figure come out as it may.Nature does do beautiful things all on her own. But since these are man made,I do tend to think some thought and "arranging" needs to be done to convey the best feeling of a situation.A solitary figure can't depend on any other props,,,it has to do all the work itself.So for that reason alone I tend to think it is important to compose them carefully.

[Lynn O. Doughty]

What about the poor soul who only works with his head? Ouch! Come on.....lighten up! Not everyone is on the path to artistic enlightenment. Most of us are just woodcarvers who are having some fun at least we thought we were. After reading through a lot of this stuff the average carver could get depressed real quick if he or she believed any of it.

Here's my thoughts on seminars or classes and while I don't teach them I certainly would never discourage someone from attending one. If I were a beginning woodcarver or a carver who is interested in learning from some of the more accomplished artists out there I would certainly sign up. It's an excellent way to pick up skill and technique and at the same time exchange problems, ideas and solutions with other attendees.

Books? I've got a ton of then and if I see a new one I'll probably buy it. I love books! You will find them laying all over my workbench. It's great to have a library of reference in my shop that I can turn to to search out the answer to a problem or to look at a reference.

I think the example that Marc gave about math is an excellent one as it cuts both ways. If you had a good teacher who taught you math you'll probably have no problems when you try to add something up. However, if you were dreaming about that nice looking babe two rows over or someday taking up woodcarving while the rest of the class were doing their sums you're going to have trouble later on. And God help you if the 1 & 1's or the 2 & 2's you're adding up are BAD 1's or 2's as they will only add up to really BAD 2's and 4's! The method of your addition might be correct but the product of your effort might be.........well, let's just not go there!

A lot of people have blazed the path for us long before we showed up on the scene so it would be foolish of us to disregard their efforts. So take those classes, sign up for those seminars, buy some more of those books and renew your subscription to this great woodcarving magazine that sponsors this forum that gives us even one more way to learn from others.

Oh.....and I married that good looking babe two rows over but failed Geometry! Guess I should have applied myself more. Yeah....right!!

[Lynn O. Doughty]

My cowboys are very composed. They could care less how they stand, slumped or otherwise. Their only goal in life is to leave my ranch and take up their new jobs of being composed on someone else's mantel, bookcase, or display stand. Fortunately, for both me and them, they seem to be quite successful in doing just that. Just the other day two of them shook hands, said Adios and left by way of the USPS for their new jobs in Florida and Ohio. Ranches in Ohio? No way!!!

[DADDIO]

so that's my problem!!!!! i didn't care about bringing down my naught naught's or learning my gazinta's either..just checking out the ladies, lol
man if i had just applied myself i could have been a great carver!! lol

[doris]

hey i go away a little, and the discussion turned in very enjoyable :-) ...
yes, mark, was a litlle like a request for reassurance...and i very appreciate you knew that
al, good, i am glad to learn your background. it explains why i more often noticed your remarks :-) and your explaining the shapes, and arrangements, let me see what i was missing, and helped me tons :-) thanks :-)
lynn, i always thought your little scenes, and also the single portraits of cowboys, and indians you do, are very well composed. maybe you dont do it intentionally, but i think they are. i could not describe it like al did, but i had always feeing they are spot on to tell the story. and that is well composed...and yes, fun is the most important , only different people get fun (even in carving) differently. ;-)

[mark yundt]

Yes Doris,,as I said earlier ,and as you understood,,I was addressing you specifically. I could have P.M.'d you,but as this is an interesting subject,,and a bit off the beaten path,,I thought some out there who find the readily available information a bit lacking might find it interesting.
Am I totally against books? Heavens no,,, I'm a bookworm myself,,go to the store every Sat. night.If anyone reads my posts there are times I suggest to someone to go to certain books for carving references.
In Doris' case,,as she herself has said in posts past,,classes,,books,,tutorials leave her flat and uninspired.I know this and understand it well. Back when I started I couldn't find,,among the hundreds available anything that gave any direction to where I wanted to go with carving. I knew what the carvings were supposed to look like,,just noone did it. The books that tried to act like the carving styles I was interested in were absolutely horrible,,and the techniques were just as bad.No wonder the carvings looked like they did.Even now during vistis to my local Woodcrafters I peruse the several hundred on display ( it's a book,,I gotta look) and haven't seen anything yet that I found really usefull.
So if I had told you Doris to follow this path,,,or go get some classes ,if you can find someone near you that teaches what you want to know. Could you have taken me seriously? And ,,was that your "real" question?
Just as when you posted your recent carving I didn't think you were actually asking for direct help.You,I felt,,were asking for reassurance.Once you got it,,what did you do? Pulled the carving. I'll be back when it's done.You did make a few adjustments to suggestions made.To me,,that sort of confirmed my suspicions.
No,,,I think for the questions you have ,the directions you want your carvings to go,,the styles,designs,,and compositions you expect,the answers are not to be found in the traditional manner of learning to carve.

[Lynn O. Doughty]

Doris....Yes, I think we're all heading in the same direction we're just on different paths. Some of us arrive at the same intersections but take a left when others take a right. Woodcarving is sort of like a ball of yarn, it looks pretty complicated with all those different threads coiled around each other but when you stretch it completely out it only as a beginning and an end. Some of us start at the beginning and end up at the end. Others start at the end and end up at the beginning. But some, the lucky ones anyway, with lots of help from lots people get to jump up the line a ways to get to where we're going a little quicker than the others. Thats when we become part of the Grand Design by reaching back and giving a hand to those still following behind us. That's when the enjoyment of carving really kicks in.

Sure, I plan out a lot of my pieces but most times I just let them happen on their own. Years ago I did the Gold Nugget Saloon scene. I built the building first and then the characters just seemed to start showing up. Card players, a barman, a drunk, a Soiled Dove upstairs an old rancher and his wife in a buckboard heading home after doing there shopping. Everything was finished and it was displayed at a store downtown but I always thought something was missing. One day while in the store I noticed some ceramic chickens on a counter nearby. That was it! I put three chickens in the road running from the horse pulling the buckboard and the scene was finally complete. I can't say I really designed that part as it just seemed to happen but those three chickens became the main focus of the entire conglomeration. While I originally set out to do a scene about a Saloon I ended up doing a scene about some frightened city chickens. Now some might think that would cause me to be in a fowl mood. Not a chance! Since then I've used that chicken idea over and over to good effect.

[KeithC]

Although a very raw and very new beginner, I would like to offer my comments. Prior to my illness forcing me into retirement I was involved in the management of a fine art publishing business. We speciallized in the printing, marketing and etc. of limited edition prints of quite a few of the finest artist of our times. We chose artist who were the best, and most well known to the public. Naturally because we wanted to make a buck, right. These artist spent a lot of time in our facility helping in the reporduction of their paintings and also in creating a work specifically to be reproduced. Each were different had their own pallettes, methods of work and recognizable styles. One thing I did notice each had their own inner vision of what they wanted to create and went about doing it. I would often ask them about their method of organizing their paintings, 9 times out of 10, I would get the same response out of them that Lynn gives here. They would tell me that they just did what comes natural to them, most after years of study and practice and the other stuff was primarily used by others, either to explain, sell or instruct. There was also no one background you could tie too. Some picked it up naturally and just started painting, others were mentored, others had a formal education. All had a vision and a passion for what they were doing. I for one believe that some have it within them to be great and will do so no matter what, others of us just hope to achieve some degree of profeciency and really enjoy what we do. There are artist on this board that have reached the same level of greatness in their carving and I am so thankful to be able to ask questions, and learn from them. As the old saying goes, "If your in a strange country, get yourself a good teacher." Thanks for listening to my rambling.
Keith

[Alice in Wonderland]

Thank you all for an interesting post and I wish I could write as beautiful as you all,
but to me it comes down to the same point ,"Individuality" if you use handtools or Power ,what the end result is matters. )))
Alice

[doris]

this discussion sure helped me alot, and though i know, as lynn has pointed out, this topic might be depressing to some carvers, yet i also know there are carvers interested in these, and your participation just proved it. thank you all for sharing your knowledge, opinion, and insight.