Little shavers beginners set can't carve gunstocks???

[woodsman1st]

I have been lurking in the shadows of this forum for 11 months now; and I am ready to start learning how to cut wood. Over my 11 months of lurking, I have found this forum to be filled with helpfull people more than willing to help a new person to this hobby get started. However, I ran into a slight problem yesterday with a question in an email I sent to Rick at Little Shavers; my question was: "Can I carve oak leaf patterns in a gunstock with the Little Shavers Beginners kit?" His reply was: "I wouldnt reccomend any carving set for carving gunstocks. All the stock carvers I know use power micro motors."
Well I cannot afford to buy any power tools; nor would I really want to invest a large amount of money in a new hobby, until I am sure I am going to stay with the hobby. Plus he did not really answer my question: "Can I carve oak leaf patterns in a gunstock with the Little Shavers Beginners kit?"

Hopefully, with experience, I will move on to carving animals and other more difficult things once I gain experience. I remember back in the 1950s I worked for Pachmayer Gun Works and they had dozensof world class carved and checkered gun stocks; costing in the thousands of dollars. I don't believe they even had power carving tools back then; and the one carver they had employed used all hand tools.
So the question remains: can I use the Little Shavers Beginners kit to carve oak leaf patterns in gunstocks? I realize I would have to add other knives/tools as I gain experience and tackle more difficult projects; this is a "starter" kit I am trying to purchase.
I sure would appreciate opinions on this; as I am anxious to get started now that I have made the decision to do so.
Regards
Ken

[Donna_T]

I'm going to jump in here and post my 2 cents worth of opinion. Sure you can use the starter kit to carve oak leaves on a gun stock. However, I don't think you could do a very good job of checkering the stock with the tool found in Rick's starter kit.

Depending on the type of wood you're using, if it's very hard (like walnut, pecan, or cherry), you will have to keep the tools very sharp. Depending on the size of the design, a basic v-tool, knife, and gouge can do about anything. So, while power would be my tool of choice for an intricate design on very hard wood, it can certainly be done with basic hand tools.
Donna_T

[Dan S]

I'll agree with Donna. The tools can be used to carve anything if kept sharp. However they won't necessarily carve everything easy or as well as you might like. The carving you are after is extremely detailed. Most basic kits won't include tools that fine. Get some scrap hardwood and have a go at it before you start on the custom Weatherby rifle. If you want to try power carving on the cheap get a dremel with a flex shaft. They can often be found at swapmeets for a few dollars.

Good luck!
Dan

[rick-in-seattle]

Woodsman1st,
I said "I wouldn't recommend any carving set for carving gunstocks."
I have tried carving a stock with carving tools myself.

The checkering is done with special checkering tools, while most is done with engravers and micro-motors.

The best engraver I know has a page that may help.
Gunstock Carving by Bill Janney

Finally, I couldn't sell anyone a beginner's set that won't carve what they want.
There is a carving supply that sells a "complete gunstock kit"
http://www.fandfwoodcarving.com/checkering_tools.htm

[GaryMc]

Hello Woodsman,
You can carve the gunstock, but keep in mind that most gunstocks are Walnut or other hard woods. Here is a picture of a Walnut gunstock that I carved years ago using tools very much like the ones Rick sells. You just have to go slow and take your time and keep your tools sharp!
GaryMc

[Donsexton]

You could carve a gunstock with a broken hacksaw blade, but its more fun to have the nice tools to work with.

[Soggy]

Darn it Don!...you beat me to it.;.............only I was gonna say you could use a rusty nail.............
Soggy

[Curly Early]

Ken,
I can sense the urgency in getting started with this gunstock project, as you are just getting started, we have no idea of your natural? carving ability. I have observed some carvers producing works at one year that others have not attained at several years of carving. Your post sounds like you not only have the desire, but the ambition to be successful at this new endeavor. Now lets tackle your question, yes the right person can do it successfully and as you would watch them, they would make it look so easy, you would be sure you'd be able to do the same. Like any very competant creator of wonderful works of art, there's a time lag between starting out and their wonderful works. I would myself practice on some other pieces of wood first, basswood will be easier than the gunstock, also the practice piece will be flat, the gunstock also will make you have a curved surface to work with. I had a friend loan me a motorized checkering tool, he said if you can learn this, I'll hire you to do my guns. He watched some women doing this at a gun factory, and seeing how easy it was to do, paid about 700 dollars for this easy maker of gunstocks, --but wasn't near as easy to do as what he observed them doing with the same tool. So I tried this easy tool, same results as him, all it takes is one slip and the checkering slip outside the design layout and a line not parallel and grinning now, I figured I could turn a 1000 dollar gun into a 700 dollar gun. On a gunstock, you're also working on a small "canvas", don't know a better word for the area on the stock you'll be working on. You mention, after learning this leaf carving, you'd go on to animals, I've carved a few animals, some realistic faces and I wouldn't consider a gunstock, the wood being harder than basswood, and that oppertunity to make a slip, I've had guys really want a squirrel or deer carved but I won't touch one, even tho I'm experienced.
So here's the answer - yes you can, don't start on a gunstock, bring your abilities up to the requirement to do the job very well. Power carving would make the job easier than hand tools, but will cost more. If I could be of help, PM me and I might be of some assistance in helping you.
Earl

[woodsman1st]

I am receiving some great advice on here which I truly appreciate. Allow me to clear up one bit of confusion though; I do have a little experience in checkering using proper checkering tools; and I am aware that checkering is a totally different art form. For my first venture into checkering they had decals to help get started; for my first attempt I chose one of the most difficult patterns IMHO; the Fleur-de-lis (I believe the spelling is correct) and I did it without a border. It came out perfect without one overrun; however it did take me close to 6 months to complete lol. At least it shows that I do have patience. That was on a full length Mannlicher Stock; I did both the forearm and the pistol grip.

I really do appreciate all the comments and suggestions; even those advising me not to do it. To those offering assistance and/or advice I am particularly greatful. I have already learned so much; both from those who advise me not to do it and state their reasons; as well as those who offer encouragement. As an example, I had no idea that the angles of the blades/chisels would differ depending on the hardness of the wood; my knowledge of what I am about to undertake is ZERO! ZIP! NADA!

While in the past I have shown a tad of artistic ability, I have no idea how this will transfer over to the carving of gunstocks; I could indeed turn a $1000.00 gunstock into a nice slow burning piece of firewood for my woodstove; but I do intend to start on the many pieces of hardwood I received from a cabinet maker, before I even attempt to work on my least expensive stock. I realize that there is a difference between the flat hardwood pieces I will use for practice, and the curved surfaces of a gunstock.

At present I am planning on buying a starter carving kit; a starter kit of chisels and gouges; and buying more accessories for my Dremal. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I believe the most difficult part will be learning how to use the chisals, gouges, and carving tools; that's where all my scrap hardwood will come in handy. The next hardest, for me anyway, will be drawing a pattern on the practice wood and the stock; plus I have a sneaky feeling that learning how to sharpen all these different tools may also be an art form that I will have to learn. (Maybe I should take up knitting lol )

They used to sell decalls to transfer the patterns, and that made it so easy; that's why I chose the Fleur-de lis for my first checkering attempt; the hard part was made easy with the decals. But the company that made them has gone out of business.

So please do not stop giving me your opinions both negative and positive; especially when you give your reasons for your opinion; because I learn from both. I never discard an opinion just because it is negative; there is way too much to learn; especially opinions based upon experience such as I am finding on this forum. None of the opinions expressed here are wrong in my eyes; and I learn from all of them. So once more I thank you for taking the time to advise me; and please don't stop.
Regards to all.
Ken

[Mitchell]

Welcome back Rick....

It's been too long.