Etiquite in carving class

[myronhall]

No guys, I am not asking if it is okay to spit on the floor in classes (it is okay isn't it?).

I have started a class at the local community college through continuing ed, not because I wanted to learn to carve, but because a carver friend told me that there was a great deal of fellowship in the class and a fun meeting once a week. The instructor is not a renown carver, just a fellow that has convinced someone that he knows how to carve and leads the class, many of the students are much more advanced. My problem is this: The instructor likes to pick up carvings of the"students" and just starts carving or jabbing marks. He does this without asking. He picked up a santa carving that I am working on and proceed to show me how to lay out eyes by pushing dividers deep into the wood. I already had eye placement down pretty well and did not need or ask for his demonstration. He also picked up one of my Knotts Knives to demonstrate a technique for which I would never use a knife, prying out deep chips, and broke off the tip of the knife, which will cause me some quality time with my sharpener to fix. I came home from the class ripping mad. I don't mind someone showing me things, happens all the time at the wood carving club in Hickory, but no one has ever taken up my carving and started to work on them. and no one has ever mis-used a tool before. If I say something to the instructor, I create hard feelings, what would you guys do in this case?

[xsailer]

First, I would not return to his class unless the "fellowship" you speak of is worth another episode. Sounds like manners are not high on his list of etiquette and he is the way he is. Then in order to not embarrass myself I would sit down and write a firm letter explaining to the 'powers that be' just what happened and advise them it would be nice in the future if they would hire teachers that knew more about the subject they "teach" than their students. After finishing the letter I would sit on it for a while and if I felt the same mail it to the appropriate folks.
Having said the reasonable thing here is what I would like to do. Grab him by the neck and …..&#$*$^@ and then and pee in his ear.
Now I feel good.

[oldbearx2]

I agree with xsailer.

I took a class with the Bishops and they will do some work on your carving, but not until they ask if it is ok. I have never had anyone either in a classs or a club get toegther take one of my knives or other tools without first asking. Not doing so, in my opinion, shows disrespect for you and your tools. Sounds like this guy is just uneducated in the true ways of good carvers.

[Paul_Guraedy]

I would go immediately to the registrar's office and drop this class...with or without refund. I would state my case in writing; but, doubt that it would do much good. It is doubtful that the Community College has any requirement of demonstrated ability to teach in its continuing education classes. If the instructor has offered some carvings as an example of carving ability; it is doubtful that whomever approves the classes has the expertise to judge the quality. Usually, they are far more interested in filling the class than in level of instruction. But, going on record would certainly make me feel better.

Working on a student's carving seems to be an accepted technique. The instructor carves one side, usually the easiest based on the dominant hand, and the student matches by carving the other half. However, most instructors tell the students to let them know if they do not want the instructor to work on their carving.

In my opinion, given the example of damage to your knife, I would not only question this instructor's ability to teach; but, also the ability to carve.

[chuckbolton]

"good" carvers arent necessarily good instructors. i have never had an instructor take a carving with out asking first and the same with tools-- i cannot imagine him breaking something and not offering some compensation. i do think id atleast tell him i didnt want him carving on my piece-- that you want it to be an original carved by you. i do think id mention to the administration your problems with him-- its only fair to some other instructors. i have been in one class where the instructor wasnt getting around to the students-- one sitting next to me asked a question of me. i answered it and the instruitor overheard my answer and asked me if i wanted to teach the class. i told her if she were moving faster -- the question would have been asked of her- i qualified the question with " this i how i do it, there are other methods. fortunately it was a one day class- i havent taken another class for this person.

[Hi_Ho_Sliver]

You should have told this pardon the expression "instructor" when he broke your knife, that he just bought it!!! The college has rules about the conduct of its instructors and you can bet your life you should report this whole incident!

[Kenny_S]

Ditto to what has been said. Sorry to hear about your class. That instructor gives a bad name to others who enjoys their trade.

[Ron T]

Hi Myron,

I'm really sorry to hear about your carving class experience.

I taught business courses at the Community College here in L.A., I did have my credentials, and it was a very satisfying experience to me. My approach, however, has always been to give respect to others unless they show me they don't deserve it.

My approach would be to speak with the instructor alone before or after class. Explain to him your membership in carving groups and the ettiquette there of not carving on others' works. Tell him that you understand this is a class and his approach may be different but you would appreciate it if a little courtesy were extended to you and the others by his asking before cutting on your work. Next, I would tell him that I was extremely bothered and devastated that he would pick up my knife and use it to pry wood, thereby chipping the tip, compromising its use.

You will be able to tell anywhere along your monologue whether he is responsive or not. Do not let him interrupt you until you are finished and expect a certain amount of defensiveness. If he is a decent person, he will apologize, offer to repair or replace the knife, and amend his teaching approach.

If on the other hand he becomes very defensive, walk away and go to the administration. Explaining the outcome. Also, tell them how much your paid for the knife but do not tell them you can repair it. They may offer you compensation for the knife and for the course tuition.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Good luck.

[Keoma]

I am in total agreement with everyone here. Wow, I was mad, just reading of your experience! Me being me, I would have jumped up as soon as the knife snapped and snapped myself but that’s me.
Congratulations on you for not breaking his fingers!
Reporting this whole incident is the best bet. Keep your cool and explain yourself and the issue, don't feel bad about telling them you want your knife replaced. This is your property and was broken by an instructor.
I can tell you from my own experience that just because you can do something, does NOT mean you can teach. I was decent in school with all my subjects, but when it came to teaching my kids at home, I struggled. I am not a good teacher. Some people are, but not me. I can show you how it is to be done, but not instruct you how, my patience wares too thin. Maybe this poor guy is the same way.
Here is my thought.
Get a group together and start something of your own. You can have it at your place, a park, or alternate places and other folk’s homes. Toss some lunch and a few brews into the agenda and now we are talkin' fellowship!
My guess is others feel the same as you do. It might be fun to start a something and it's easy to do.
No big scene needs to be made in class, I'm not talking a loud and raunchy riotous walk out, but the fact is, that the more people drop the class; there soon will not be a class. Hopefully a new instructor can be found...(maybe you or another in the class?)
But maybe starting something with a few other folks is all you need. Good Luck!

[scooter]

As you can see, folks here can sympathize.

This should not go unmentioned. First, tell the instructor (in private, and needn't be accusational) that you prefer to be the only one to mark your carving, with the exception of perhaps pencil marks.

Secondly, mention should be made to the CC admin, and as was alluded to, in writing. Results from this won't be as immediate, but I'm sure you're not the only one who is dissatisfied with the instructor. If a/several?/many? complaint[s] about the instructor is/are received, the hope is that the instructor will be read the riot act and ammend his ways, including with the students who are dissatisfied and _don't_ speak up.