Ethics question

[GeorgiaCarver]

Most of my carvings come from pictures I have taken or drawings that I have come up with.

I just started getting back into carving after about a 10 year leave. (pre-internet)

Now I am able to surf the internet and see literally 1,000 carvings in an evening. So here is my Ethics question: If you see a carving on a site that you really like and want to try to make a copy (free hand the drawing) and transfer to wood is that ethical?

Would it make a difference to you if you were doing it for yourself (would not sell). Just a question, really was not an issue 10 years ago I came up with all my own designs. I am now seeing some cool ideas but I am not comfortable making a copy. Should I be concerned?

Greg

[Colin-Partridge]

Greg,;
I think that only if you were to copy someones carving exactly and then market it for profit either by selling the pattern or reproducing it for sale. Other than that I think you have hit the nail on the head it is the just ethics. For instance I really loved the face that Susan did the tutorial on. I am not going to reproduce it for a sale item but I wanted to try and do the face. I asked Susan if I she would mind if I made copies of it for my own use. She was kind enough to let me do that, although if I had done it on my own she would have never been the wiser I didnt think it would be an ethical thing to do. So to answer your question I think ethically everyone should ask before doing so even if its for your own use. If someone asked me I would be flattered if they were to ask to reproduce one of my carvings but I am sure there are some that would not feel the same way.
Colin

[Alice in Wonderland]

Greg, I have had the same questions when I started working with wood.
I would see a picture and would love to put it into a carving, BUT I did not, rather I may take the idea and work with it and make it my own at the end ,usely ending up with something totally different. I do not work with patterns either because I like wood with character ( knots, faults branch holes lot of grain etc.) so a pattern or an other carving will all together change in the process of working with it. I hope I made this clear "my second language" does not always come out laud and clear. :-) :-) I hope this helped??
Alice

[Kenny_S]

Colin hit it hard as I ask Susan also about using apattern of her Fireman holding the American flag. She had a burning and a carving of it and it was outsatnding in both. I have a son who is a paramedic/fireman and wanted to burn a picture of her pattern fo him for Christmas. She was gracious in allowing me to burn one as a present to my son, However, she wanted to see it when finished. OH boy, to burning 1/10 as good as she does. The pressure is on. I do have it on the wood but have not attempt it yet.

Yes, Ask first and save the embarrassment or problems. It is hard to come up with ideas that have not been use before.

However, There is no way I could copy someone elses carving. Just ain't that good!

[brian-bailey]

I'm currently taking a drawing course at a local community college.

This topic was discussed in class at some length and here is my take on the subject for what it's worth.

Here is a quote from Daniel Mendelowitz's book, A Guide to Drawing, 4th edition, Chapter 4, Copying and Sketching, pg.42.

" Copying, in its various forms, is a legitimate activity, not for the purpose of imitation, but as a means of learning - learning to see, learning about styles and techniques - as well as stimulating the imagination."

Don't let today's current copy-rightist's / political correctness attitude stymie your creativity, just don't use another's work as your own.

[GeorgiaCarver]

Alice, that is a great carving. I have always used flat pine boards. I really need to branck out. No pun intended! I am thinking about trying a characture (christmas ornament). I also thought about trying a walking stick. I have Crepe Myrtle in our yard and I was noticing some great sticks.

[Hugh]

The word is INSPIRATION. I started carving from the inspiration of Jim Sprankles Carvings, and still use others works or carvings to see how someone else would imitate nature. The use of a pattern is necessary for me to teach, but we use wildlife photos to create. Some disagree with being inspired by others work, but I don't think it unethical to do so. When we attend a seminar or carving class, are we not learning somone elses methods of imitating. Just my two cents worth

[Irish]

If you are making a copy for yourself and it will remain in your personnal possession usually there is not a problem. If you are going to sell that copy or teach from that copy then you do need to contact the original artist for permission.

Using other people's work has long been a teaching technique for the artists including carving. Looking and working from someone else's work gives you guidelines and ideas to help expand your skill. As a pattern maker, teacher and someone who does display their work on the net I expect people to make copies of what I have done and am showing. And the patterns that I share are shared exactly for that reason ... for you and others to use!

I have a little barn tutorial on our site that is a beginner's project. I think that I have seen that little barn in Chip Chats a 100 times since we posted the project on the net. And I smile with absolute delight every time it shows up in the magazine!

In my experience most artists, photographers and other carvers will be pleased to grant permission for you to copy their work for personnal use. It is a simple and easy courteous to ask first. It's respectful. If they say no, well the net does have 1000's of great carvings and I would then go and find something else by another carver.
Susan

(KennyS - Lay that stuff on your preacher or therapist! The only pressure here is not coming from my side. Besides, ya'll forget that when I was just starting to carve there was no net or message boards to share my work. So none of you ever got to see my early works nor ever will. And today, I am a skill enough Professional to take the junkers directly and without hesitation to the kindling pile so you don't get to see them either!
)

[MelNM]

No fairsee Susan I would love to see your early works, this would at least let me think I have a small chance of getting to your level of carving expertise. Apple

Going back to the topic I'm have the same opinion as everyone else. If its for learning and your own personal use thats ok, but not to make a profit off of someone elses creation.

[Lightningbolt]

I must admit that I have gathered a LOT of pictures, drawings, and articles since the advent of the internet. While it will never replace my starving appetite for excellent how-to carving books which do such a good job at detailing a specific area of the craft, on the other hand the internet has offered me a whole new wealth and source for spawning my own creative ideas.

Most of the time I will use this vast resource gathered from the internet mostly for better understanding a new way to carve something. As an example it was about a year ago when I carved a walking stick with a bald eagle bust on the top. Well, when I finished it I took it to work and someone commented that it looked like a parrot!!! :-( When I got home I downloaded several pictures of bald eagles and sadly... she was right! I had carved a perfect parrot right out of Jimmy Buffet's "Margaritaville" painted like a bald eagle! Well, I then spend all of the next weekend referring to several actual pictures and carvings of the bald eagle and totally recarved my stick. As a result I now have a stick that much better represents my impression of a bald eagle and the kind girl at work agrees!

As for trying to make exact duplicates to sell or not, I agree, wouldn't be ethical. Personally I collect and refer to tons of freely downloaded pictures mostly as a reference when my brain just needs a nudging to the next level of what I'm already trying to do.