How do you use patterns?

BobD · #1 07-26-2007, 10:38 AM

We've been discussing the patterns for carvings in the rought that we put in the magazine a lot lately. After Jack Kochan had to step down for a bit as our primary draftsperson for patterns, we've struggled to find a replacement for him. Irene Bertils is a good replacement, but we've found ourselves discussing the value of patterns for a carver.

Do you use them solely to mark the rough dimensions and proportions onto the blank?

Do you use them to mark major landmarks onto the carving as you work?

Are you confused by all the detail in the patterns?

Do the patterns show you anything that the reference photos do not?

We're just trying to figure out how to present the patterns in the most helpful way.

Bob

Lynn O. Doughty · #2 07-26-2007, 10:50 AM

Personally, I think a pattern that contains too much detail can be a hinderance as much as a help. It has been my experience that a lot of carvers transfer the profiles of the actual piece to a block of wood and cut on those lines, leaving them no excess on the outside to actually carve. It would be best to give both a roughout pattern maybe just outside the lines of the actual finished piece along with the drawing or photo of what the carving should resemble when done.

Another suggestion would be when doing a particular carving, i.e., Santas, Mountain Men, Kowboys, etc., give some reference sources that the carver can search out to actually learn a little about what he or she is doing. Too often a carver will carve a figure of something he has no real knowledge of. With the many sources available on the web these days there is certainly no lack of info on just about any subject. Look it up! Learn about it! Then carve it!

bobddahl · #3 07-26-2007, 11:31 AM

I'd say that the patterns now in the magazine are very good.

The patterns should be from three different views. The front, side and back.
Photos of these three positions would also be very helpful.

BobD · #4 07-26-2007, 11:48 AM

My questions is since we always provide reference photos from the front, back, and both sides...how valuable is the pattern. We provide the same views for all in-the-round carvings.

If the reference photos are large, are the patterns any more valuable than the photos?

Bob

Thomp · #5 07-26-2007, 11:48 AM

Bob D -snip- the value of patterns for a carver.

Do you use them solely to mark the rough dimensions and proportions onto the blank?
sometimes, other times the pattern can captured in photo or scanned to be reduced to fit the wood. without all that cyphering and head scratching,

Do you use them to mark major landmarks onto the carving as you work?
you need to sometimes, for reference sometimes to bandsaw out the block, then for reference when you carve off the pencil marks to regain landmarks or i do...

Are you confused by all the detail in the patterns?
When the pattern has all the chip marks into it it gets confusing sometimes,

Do the patterns show you anything that the reference photos do not?
it gives definition sometimes where its hidden in the photo all help together .

We're just trying to figure out how to present the patterns in the most helpful way.
how bout optional subscption have them On CD ROM.. is my suggestion, cd's are only 9 cents each even the small cd business cards would hold the whole magazine..

Bob[/quote]

brian bailey · #6 07-26-2007, 11:59 AM

IMO,

I'd put more emphasis on the pictures.

You can easily make a pattern from a picture.

TommyPhillips · #7 07-26-2007, 02:40 PM

I'm going to emphasize one of Thomp's remarks: The clear lines and details of the pattern are often useful when you are trying to understand what the photos are showing. Big word warning: they help with disambiguation.

-Tommy Phillips

Ashbys · #8 07-26-2007, 07:12 PM

Bob,
I think the format would have to be changed to the type of carving that is being done.

If your doing a 3-d carving and just showing the cut line it would work for some people , others need more "show me" . In a 3-d pattern you need all the views , front , top, left side right side, bottom and back if your look to make an excat copy of a carving which has changes in the four views.

If you take a picture from one or two angles often it is not enough to give you the additional details that you want for the reproduction. Take a Santa simple enough we all know it is Santa . But the left hand is in the air , the right hand is bent forward and has a bell , the front shows his arms with one against his body the other away. The right leg is standing forward and the left is slightly turned. In the front he's coat is open at the bottom it is pulled tight around the neck. The open space at the bottom falls back to his legs and sits slightly up on the forward one. From the top he can see his hat and the taper to the back where the wind pushes it side ways. The back of his coat has a buckle and a patch , with locators for the belt . His feet one is bent and the other flat but the placement location is critical to make him able to stand and the limbs to be in correct alinement .

So for a simple pattern , the details can make or break a carving and the move views you have the eaiser to see what is to be made correctly. Alsom , many peple that read WCI have never attempted to carve before the more detail in the pattern the more enjoyment they will get from using it. So I suggest you show the block , cutlines in red, and as many sides with detail as possiblle.

As for relief , not a lot of shading but good lines .

Just my 2cents

susieq · #9 07-26-2007, 07:16 PM

Hi Bob,
If a pattern has two or three views....side and front or back or both, it is helpful if you want to scale the pattern up or down in size. I will take a pattern and throw it on a copy machine at Staples, make copies 50% larger or smaller and the other views, shrink or enlarge to the same %. It is so easy that way.

I also think the details are helpful to certain newer carvers who rely on a "map" to show them what to do. Some of us can take a pattern and completely rework the details to suit ourselves, even using some of the details included as inspiration for adding things out of our own imagination but newer carvers are less confident in their own ideas and would prefer, at least in the begining, to have it all laid out for them.
susieq

Eddy Smiles · #10 07-26-2007, 09:28 PM

Bob...

I use a pattern to provide general shape or outline. Over the years I've purchased quite a few of Fox Chapel books and other carving publisher books and all provide patterns in different detail. Some just provide a shape along with reference photos. Looking at those type of patterns it usually appears that if the carver wants some extra wood to work with then he'd better cut outside the lines.

Some authors like .. i.e... Mike Shipley provide a pattern with both the finished carving form and the roughout form, usually indicated by a dotted line, shown. He also provides a lot of detail on the pattern.

To me either one is acceptable and useful. I generally scan a pattern into my computer and then using a drawing program fit it to the size wood that I have on hand. If additional wood for roughing is not indicated on the pattern I add it at the time of cutout.

If a pattern showing the general outline, front, side ( and back if required), was provided and it was accompanied by the related reference photos then I'd say that a carver would have as much as he/she needs.

In my opinion detail on the pattern isn't all that necessary since once the roughout is 3-dimensional it's almost physically impossible to transfer that detail to the roughout from the pattern. At some point in time the carver has to rely on some basic artistic skills and whether he /she uses a pattern or a reference photo is really immaterial.