DEBATE THREAD:Is contest competition fair?

real good · #1 10-29-2007, 01:59 PM

I have entered a small amount of contests and have seen carvings win that are painted by someone other then the carver. I think if the carvers artistic ability isnt good enough to paint then the carver should have to enter it unpainted to be judged solely on the carving. that would be fair. Jack

BobD · #2 10-29-2007, 02:05 PM

Hi there, Jack,
I moved your post out of the author question area (which is reserved for specific questions to specific authors, and requires a moderator to approve posts made to that area) to the general carving area where everyone can weigh in.

I have a feeling that this is going to bring up a variety of opinions, too, which is why I noted that this will be a debate thread.

Bob Duncan
Technical Editor

mdallensr · #3 10-29-2007, 02:31 PM

Some shows/competitions require collaborators to state what part of the carving they did. Some shows have categories for carvings from rough-outs or for instructor-assisted carvings made in classes. I think it is better to find a way to include as many carvings as possible but to keep a level playing field within each category. Carving shows and competitions are shrinking and we need to eoncourage more exhibitors. Mike

Mitchell · #4 10-29-2007, 02:36 PM

I hate to paint - well, "hate" is a strong word.....I don't like to paint carvings. But to be sold and/or for some showings, painting is more attractive. Now, I'm not saying that my artistic ability is not good enough (that's a different subject) just that I don't like to do it.

I have not run across any situations (that I'm aware of), in competition, where the painting was done by someone other than the artist. What type of contest was this and did the rules specify that all the work must be done by the artist?

Many "rules" specify that the work should be entirely of the artist. If it's not specified, then the piece in question may be acceptable (but I doubt there are many competitions that would knowingly allow this). I suppose it depends on the show.

I personally would not like to see a piece entered that's been worked on by two different artists - but if the rules allowed it, then I wouldn't think that it would be truly "unfair".

Also, many shows allow two sub-categories - one natural (unpainted) and one painted - for many different categories of carvings. That way, carvers that are not good painters (or don't want to paint), can still compete.

To continue with Mike's statement above, rough outs are a much bigger concern to the integrety of the art (for cmpetitions).
But (AND), we must find a way to balance allowing new and/or inexperienced carvers to enter contests to keep the art alive and actively entering competitions. Again, we can do this with rules and guidelines being clearly published.

Ashbys · #5 10-29-2007, 03:23 PM

I have to say depends on the competition.

If your entering a painting competition , then you should paint it.

As a carving, well to be honest paint should have nothing to do with it. You entered a carving that should be judged on the merits of the carving not on a paint job.

If it is a competition for art where the painting is a part of that competition then yes it should be considered.

If it is a professional competition, where real professionals are in the competition for the end results, and the piece is entered as a studio, then chances are the same person, that designed it, who carve it and who painted it will be more than one person and should be expected that they put the best they have on each job.

And personally , I treasure the pieces that have been painted for me, not because I can't paint , but because of the quality of work that was developed from their experence and talent.

So unless it is in the rules,

Ash

gene messer · #6 10-29-2007, 04:41 PM

I suppose no matter what competition you enter .. and I have only entered a few .. but not like alot of you have ...

That not everything can all be fair .. I have seen competitions where roughouts have been used and not told about and wives have painted the husbands work and a number of things .. But I try not to let it worry me .. I once knew of a wife who painted her husbands carving that had won and while everyone else where making over the piece .. I went to his wife in secret and told her what a beautiful job she did on the carving .. She smiled a thank you and we have been friends ever since ...

I once won a ribbon for a carving that I thought was far inferior to others work .. but the judges just liked the style they told me .. Who can figure ?

I guess what Iam trying to say is .. that competition isnt always going to be perfect .. and if you go there because you love carving and just want to see and enjoy the fellowship and try to learn .. believe me your have a much better time and go away with alot better attitude .. I dont compete anymore .. But thats my choice, I know ..I just love to go and make over everyone elses piece's .. I make alot of good friends and go away alot more happy .. Sorry if that wasnt the right answer .. but I do know life isnt always going to be fair .. But neither is winning always the answer either ..

Gene

feb · #7 10-29-2007, 04:59 PM

I agree with Ash ,that the carving part is the most important. Mabye they should have a compatition where you bring your carving unpainted have it judged then bring it back painted for a second judging lol. Feb

chpster90bu · #8 10-31-2007, 09:49 PM

I will have to say that Gene's reply is the closest to my feelings about the whole competition thing. I'll have to say, though, that there are two things that I think should happen.....power carving should have a category by itself, as should hand carvings. I also think roughout carvings should have their own category as well as carvings from scratch or just blanks. I have entered a few competitions, though, just for the fun of it, as I am not in the same class as many of the carvers on this board. I have been blessed with some ribbons, however, and I always get excited and overwhelmed at that, for sure.....but the fun of it for me is meeting people, making friends and without question, being able to view the talent that is exhibited in the many different types of artwork. I just love it. It makes you want to try harder when you see what some people can achieve. Bonnie

SeaChips · #9 10-31-2007, 10:21 PM

Yup, I'm in total agreement with Bonnie. I've been in a contest where the art was shared and the person confessed to me after the show that someone else painted "and" helped finish the piece. I was astounded that someone would enter this art solely as their own... and win. But, I enjoyed the show and other artists and their pieces, so I guess that is what it is all about

Jim Arnold · #10 11-04-2007, 08:51 AM

Issues like you describe need to dealt with up front by the rules of the particular competition. In the absence of such rules anything goes. Contests and competitions bring out the best and worst in people...I have to admit they are fun and I have entered my share, but the judging is such a subjective aspect that you really have to focus on the fun of being in the race and not so much on the outcome. For me, the fun is being around a bunch of other people who share your passion and interests...kind of like what it feels like to hang around here!